[Spoilers PB23] Old Harry's attempt at civilizing AdrienIer

[AdrienIer]

I went east because after meeting Caledorn I wanted to see if I could get some info by looking at his south, and I did (we'll have to be careful about them once they hit construction with their ivory). Then I figured it took forever to go back to scout N or S so went on to meet different people. From what I've seen it's possible (although not certain) that we might all be on the same line, all with 2 neighbors east and west.

Here's a variation of the third run (whipping a barrack in the second city for culture, not sure it's best as it delays city n°4). If you have any question I can be more explicit.

I picked AH without really thinking it through, here's the list

Actually here's what I get on windowed mode, it's a lot worse visually and it's not smaller. I think it comes from my screen resolution.

[Old Harry]

Brilliant stuff, that's great to work from!

A couple of worker efficiency things - if your workers both put a chop into the roaded forest on their way to the corn you don't waste that movement turn (turns 34 and 36). That means the chop can go into Rome t37 or t38 (depending on if you complete it before or after doing the corn.)

I think your reasonable tech choices after Pottery are:
- AH to reveal Horse
- Sailing for Lighthouse + Galleys
- Writing for Library, Maths chops and early Currency or Alphabet
- Myst for religion
If you're feeling paranoid about the neighbours or barbs then AH would be good, but I think pushing a few more warriors out to fog-bust will suffice. I prefer to avoid building infra too early, so a lighthouse when Rome can only grow to size 5 is probably a bit premature. I always find myself rushing to Maths and Currency (on this map Alphabet isn't as good as on a continents map is it?), perhaps you could fit religion in and then do that? There is no guarentee that it will found in Cumae though - it's most likely to go to your biggest non-capital city. With that wine and the lack of pre-calendar happy I wonder if an early Monarchy is dumb. It probably is...

You're researching at 80% - I *think* that can cost you some beakers - if eg your tech has a 1.2 multiplier and you are making 10 commerce a turn then you get 2 bonus beakers at 100% so one turn of 0% gives five turns of +2 beakers (10 in total). Wheras at 80% you only get one beaker so that's only six bonus beakers. It depends how much commerce you're making - later on a beaker isn't worth worrying about, but right now they all count.

I thought Antium was going to be a commerce city, so I'd queue up Settler-Granary-Library there, instead of the Barracks, completing the Granary ASAP then regrowing on Warriors (or the Library if you get Writing next) before whipping the Settler. Working the unimproved tiles at size 4 isn't optimal, so getting a mine on the shared hill and possibly the SE hill would be good. Alternatively stacking whip unhappy so that it's stuck at size two is another approach. How important is the border pop? Can it wait for the Library?

I think you've got the Barracks micro well optimised for commerce in Cumae, but it may be worth working the plains forest over the Oasis for a few turns to get the Barracks earlier so that the border pop will coincide with growth to size two (and a work boat from the cap for the clams).

If I get a chance I'll try and screenshot a run through doing that stuff tonight for you.

On window mode I should have said you also need to adjust your display resolution in Advanced-Options-Graphics to 1280*1024 or one of the other small ones - sorry!

[AdrienIer]

Too bad I just played T34 ingame so we lost the movement on the first worker...
I'll have a look at when's best to do a turn of 0% research, maybe next turn.

Actually the barracks build is just because I felt like getting some culture in there. If we don't go for the barrack then 1) the settler is built earlier, and 2) the granary is double whipped at the same time as the capital's. Basically we're just losing on forests to chop, but they can wait. You're right about the barracks in Cumae, the oasis is tempting but getting culture is paramount for this monster of a city.

Thanks !

[Old Harry]

I got a bit carried away...

T45 - I tried saving some cash but realised that 70% is good - with the bonus beaker you're making 15 and 15*1.2 = 18 . The warrior is going back to Rome for MP duty, but might be better employed near the gold to fog bust.


T46 - delaying the chop for Cumae by a turn to let it complete with exact hammers, this guy should build a cottage W of the cap instead of doing this chop.




T49 - Working the first Cottage!


T50 - working the second cottage (okay, I cheated, but this is what you get if you cottage instead of chop on t46). Perhaps Neapolis should work the cow earlier, but I'm not sure what Rome should work in that case... Antium puts a couple of turns into a Settler to avoid unhappiness. This warrior could fogbust W of Neapolis or go exploring...


T51 - the border pop means we're fogbusting the whole peninsula now . You probably want to road the copper at this point.


T52 - third cottage online, Copper hooked.




T54 - Two fairly stupid looking things here - we're hurting for happy so bad that I'm considering settling ON the gold (roading the desert towards it). Also in the SE roading the oasis lets us hook corn then Marble quickly even though it costs an extra turn to build the road.






T57 - Neapolis doesn't have enough food - perhaps this cottage should have been a farm?


T58 - Borders pop, Clam hooked, not enough workers down here - one of the cottages at Rome could wait til later and a worker could head down to Cumae to chop the forest the turn the borders pop?


Okay, your turn...

[AdrienIer]

Oh man, now I'm going to have to re-sim everything... It'll wait for tomorrow.

You're getting your cities on t44 and 45 which is a lot better than my attempts (I think my best was 47 and 48) but you get the granaries much later. Still probably worth it.

What would you think about changing our dotmap and putting a city 1S of the gold instead ? It's on a PH, has 2 resources first ring including the all important gold, has 2 lighthousable lakes and a forested hill cottage.

[Old Harry]

I don't really know how to evaluate the granaries vs cities thing - at this point in the game my gut is that Settlers and Workers beat infra (even granaries). The first two cities really don't have a problem growing, so getting the next cities, which do, earlier seemed sensible. I'd like to hear how Fintourist, Krill or Seven would value that though. I'm almost tempted with Antium to build more Warriors while we can instead of the granary because I love scouting information and fog busting too much.

Settling south of the gold orphans that fish in favour of getting 6gpt once we've grown the city enough to justify working a 0/3/7 tile. I think I'd rather have the fish to create a monsterous Moai city... We could settle Neapolis *on* the hamlet and pop the borders with a barracks or library, but that's almost as bad as settling on the gold and delays hooking copper too much for me . Did I mention how much I hate Krill yet?

[Krill]

Need pictures of cities, leader traits, civ and map to make those sort of evaluations. PRO really is a huge part of it.

[AdrienIer]

The fish can be accessed by a city across the sea, but maybe not by us. We need more info on what lies to our SW SE and NE now.

[Krill]

Can we get a new overview screenshot please? It gives us lurkers better context for your dot map discussions. Also you can use it for, you know, actual dot maps.

[AdrienIer]

Can we get a new overview screenshot please? It gives us lurkers better context for your dot map discussions. Also you can use it for, you know, actual dot maps.

At your service :