ISDG 2012 flame war

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Sims of the SHITTER algorithm can be painful, depending on your inputs. Probably best to simply go without simming and get it over with.

The spreadsheets, if printed on low enough weight paper, could come in handy even with as much as I hate to admit any utility at all for Excel.

I see what you did there.

[Brian Shanahan]

fwiw I've enjoyed reading your threads. It's been very entertaining and enlightening to see your side of things.

I'll spoiler my thoughts about the game for those who have re-hashed it enough:

There was definitely vitriol against Team RB over at CFC, but not quite the extent that it got here. It's actually kinda funny to see how you thought about our team, given the actual group who was active at CFC during the game. I think overall the view towards RB was respect for your skill, but we felt your in-game actions reflected arrogance.

The moment that it became clear to me that we weren't going to be able to work together was when you settled Starfall without saying a word to us beforehand. Turns out you had a draft sitting in your email for four days that you forgot to send to us I wonder how things would have been different if that got sent... Anyways, it seems like you isolated yourselves by settling a little too aggressively against all your neighbors.

I love Spanish Poly's diplomacy style! They tried to warn you they were attacking us, but you had no idea. Later, you lamented that you did not know we would be attacked while we hammered out that NAP-for-Stone+Happy deal so many people were upset about. Speaking of that deal, in our minds it was very clear that the resources were direct reparations for the city spot you took, but it seems like that didn't really get brought up over here. You guys thought it was just us taking advantage of you needing the NAP more than we did.

We were totally being dicks with our offer of Marble after we completed Taj, and I have to admit I got a chuckle reading the pages of posts about that email. At that point we definitely knew there would be no NAP extension. I thought if we could get you mad enough, you wouldn't want a NAP from us anyway, so it wouldn't look suspicious that we refused to renew. But then Scooter kept throwing sweeter and sweeter NAP offers, and you guys figured out we were part of the dogpile too. Well played there, Scooter.

A lot of you noticed that our strategy and micro improved dramatically at this point (when we got the Taj). This is when 2metra and Mackoti stepped back into the game. Having Mack on the team (unbeknownst to anyone on the team except 2metra) was a huge advantage. But even when he was playing our turns, 2metra was always involved with every turn from this point forward.

2metraninja is a really nice guy! When he writes challenging posts, he writes them with sincerity. He truly never intended to troll this site. Neither did Sommers. We had our disagreements, but he is also a good guy with a huge heart. I'm sorry RB has had so many negative interactions with them.

Just one thing, 2metra (along with Somer) should by rights never have had anything to do with team CFC. Setting aside their utter dickishness towards us pre and during the set up phase (which put me off participating in the game until near our end), the simple fact that they set up the game and were originating game admins meant that they should have been disqualified from participating with any team. The fact that they were willing to use that oversight to game the competition against one team and be utterly obnoxious and rude about it at the same time just reinforces their sheer and utter unsuitability to be put into any position of responsibility.

Oh and objectively speaking 2metra is most definitely not a nice person, he is not even a moral person.

[Krill]

Er, Brian, you know the 6 months are up now? You can get rid of the avatar...

[2metraninja]

I think if it is right that Brian missed the playing for team RB in the ISDG because of me, I actually made you guys big favor to save you the awkwardness of having such a genius around.

[Brian Shanahan]

Er, Brian, you know the 6 months are up now? You can get rid of the avatar...

I'll leave it on untill the new year. Then I'll think of something nice.

[NobleHelium]

[MJW (ya that one)]

I think if it is right that Brian missed the playing for team RB in the ISDG because of me, I actually made you guys big favor to save you the awkwardness of having such a genius around.

lol, you totally edited out a direct personal attack. I can tell by the awkwardness; just delete the post next time, okay?

[Grimace]

Well, this has been interesting. I'm fairly new to the RB community, having only just started on PB23 and having taken over from Parkin in PB20 (and began the slow decline from his fairly good position), so I wasn't around when all this was going on, and I don't have any baggage as far as personal relationships go as I've only had extended interactions with a few people, all of whom have been very courteous and helpful. So I have a few observations:

1. I've read a lot of 2metra's posts, and while it's clear he likes to provoke the RB community, I read his initial intentions in getting RB involved in this game as genuine. A lot of the back-and-forth is like a game of telephone where both sides are misreading what the other says and responding to things that were not actually said. I don't know if this is a language issue or an inability to read a post without prejudice...or a combination of both. In any case, I think a lot of the bad blood could have been avoided if people just made sure they understood the post. I saw several examples where 2metra was accused of saying something (even one in this thread) that he didn't actually say, and vice versa.

2. A certain amount of trash-talk is normal in any competition. However, if it gets personal, it stops being trash-talk. If I were to say "Old Harry's so bad at using Slavery, he wouldn't know when to whip his mom!", that's trash talk. If I were to say "wetbandit is a douche, and I hate his ugly face", that's just being rude. I've seen examples of both on the RB side. Haven't read the CFC thread, so I can't speak to their behavior. The internet is the great equalizer in that people can say and do things they would never get away with in real life, but that doesn't make it acceptable. Maybe because I'm older and come from a different generation than most online players these days, but I find myself just saddened by some people's behavior towards one another in a situation that is supposed to be a friendly (if competitive) game.

3. Cyneheard has a combat spreadsheet? Where is it, and why is this not shared with n00bs?

[YossarianLives]

I didn't mean to fan the flames in this thread. I guess I'll just say I feel differently about Sommers and especially 2Metra than some of you guys, and leave it at that.

Is there any interest left in talking about the game? Could CivFr have won if they had better diplo, or would that counter-balance to the CFC-Poly-CP alliance have just handed the game to RB? How did WPC miscalculate an attack against the Germans so badly? How about Spanish Apolyton against CFC? Did you guys ever seriously consider getting UCiv on your side? Let me know if anyone has questions about what was happening on team CFC. I stopped being active at the end, but I was very involved the entire time RB was alive.

Grimace, an old (2012) link to Cyneheard's combat calculator is here.

[MJW (ya that one)]

My point about OT4E was incorrect. The real turnplayer was from Ukraine and he didn't want to play anymore because of the political situation. Now if leaving the game would be a big deal Ukraine turnplayer might have toughed it out but it wasn't (civplayers having half the power & CivFr only spending 5 minutes per turn while at war) because the game was a joke (edit:from his eyes).

If he spoke up a replacement player probably would have been found because of the extra attention the Ukraine situation would bring. What would have happened after that would probably just be CFC & Apolyton taking a huge amount of cities so they are the only ones who have a chance though...but there's no way to be sure.