TheHumanHydra Loses His Head(s) [Spoilers]

[ipecac]

Are you going to build Moai?

[Old Harry]

Nice report. Looking at the number of forests and Jungles on the mainland I'd guess that another few workers wouldn't go amiss - how many unimproved tiles are you working? If your choice is between growing onto unimproved tiles or building a worker I'd probably go for the latter, although working specialists for your second golden age might not be a bad idea either. It looks like you're working a lot of non-fin coast - those guys are barely breaking even for you (since one pop costs something like 2 food, 1 commerce depending on costs) so whipping them into workers to get you more cottages, Forges to get you more hammers later or units to get you more land would make sense.

On building walls - I think they're valuable if you already have a bunch of units in a city and still don't feel secure, so the Mardoc borders make sense, but none of your other opponents' powers have spiked that much, so I'd keep a few hammers in them for a quick whip if needed (the hammers will last 50 turns before decaying.)

Sorry if I've missed it - but have you shown us a shot of the southern sea - is there a naval route to Mardoc for the civ that can collateral from boats (you), or is it blocked with ice? It may be that Machinery before Feudalism and whipping your fishermen into boats and CKNs could score you a few more gains...

[TheHumanHydra]

@ipecac: Yes! Thank you for reminding me. Does anyone have any thoughts as to which city would be best? Many of them sport a large number of water tiles, so it's difficult to choose. Dawn's Chancel, Virgin Planet, and Locust Haven are tied for the most water tiles with nine, followed by Worm's Lair with eight. Wormfang Shrine has seven and could probably build it the fastest. The site marked '?' on the home island would have 11, but would take a while to set up. I could see about paying Miguelitos for his stone and chopping it in Locust Haven (three forests) or Dawn's Chancel (two forests) or slowbuilding it in Worm's Lair (one forest), Virgin Planet (one forest), or Wormfang Shrine.

@OH: Hm, I never thought of tiles as costing commerce (I mean, costs obviously go up with population, but I never thought of it that way), i.e., I'm not gaining that much from continuing to grow my cities. That seems persuasive, and now I am even more. I am whipping into forges, but I haven't been doing the other two things. I'll get on it.

Re: walls - Right, the walls in the northeastern city ('Beijing' for now) and possibly Sanctuary Dome and/or Trial By Fire were probably a mistake. I was playing too cautiously. Anyway, those in the latter two cities are now done, while that in Beijing is now a double-whip's overflow away from completion (i.e., granary -> walls if necessary).

I looked at the southern area, and it appears it's blocked off with ice in both directions. I do have Machinery already. As for expending this population on military, yes, I actually think my neighbours are running light enough that a concerted effort now (with horse archers and CKNs) could make gains - for example that attack on Miguelitos we talked about might be feasible. But it's (I estimate) less than ten turns till I can build knights. Maybe I should just focus on setting up a really crushing knight attack in that time? Hard to say ...

[Old Harry]

I don't think the TBF walls were a mistake - you don't know when an expeditionary force will land/amphibiously attack and you're putting the price high enough that Mardoc won't want to pay it.

I haven't played on quick for ages, but will it be possible to whip HA's to complete as Knights (ie what's the hammer difference)? And if you get a Knight out of every city and maybe a couple out of the closer ones how quick could you have 20 hitting a neighbour? If your extra large cities can whip out lots more Knights then I think you can safely claim that growing them so much was actually a brilliant plan .

In the meantime building some Chariots/HAs for medics and sentries would be handy, but CKNs will be useful forever...

The trouble with this map is that you aren't going to eliminate anyone easily - the island cores will hold against most aggression unless badly played. I guess your galleys could ferry Knights and CKNs over, but it'll be a slow process and I don't like your chances of keeping peaceful relations with your neighbours while doing that. Declaring a phoney war on someone the turn you get Guilds and offering them enforced peace the turn you plan to attack would get you some peace of mind and perhaps even distract your real target... Or maybe just marauding around the mainland until you've kicked everyone else back to their starting islands .

[TheHumanHydra]

I haven't played on quick for ages, but will it be possible to whip HA's to complete as Knights (ie what's the hammer difference)?

33 to 60, so yes, I should be able to.

And if you get a Knight out of every city and maybe a couple out of the closer ones how quick could you have 20 hitting a neighbour? If your extra large cities can whip out lots more Knights then I think you can safely claim that growing them so much was actually a brilliant plan .

I think this sounds like a great way to cover for my mistakes.

The trouble with this map is that you aren't going to eliminate anyone easily - the island cores will hold against most aggression unless badly played. I guess your galleys could ferry Knights and CKNs over, but it'll be a slow process and I don't like your chances of keeping peaceful relations with your neighbours while doing that.

You know, the more I think about this, the more I think this is actually an advantage for an attacker: if you can blitz through your opponent's mainland holdings quickly, it becomes equally difficult for your opponent to mount a counterattack as it would be for you to invade his home island. So you only have to take half your opponent's land to neutralize or at least greatly reduce them as a threat, instead of all of it (so long as you remain vigilant). Or am I ?

Declaring a phoney war on someone the turn you get Guilds and offering them enforced peace the turn you plan to attack would get you some peace of mind and perhaps even distract your real target...

Yes ... flashing them some knights the turn I attempt the declare/peace offer might also make them more inclined to take it. I like it.

Or maybe just marauding around the mainland until you've kicked everyone else back to their starting islands .

The thought has occurred to me ...

[Krill]

You know, the more I think about this, the more I think this is actually an advantage for an attacker: if you can blitz through your opponent's mainland holdings quickly, it becomes equally difficult for your opponent to mount a counterattack as it would be for you to invade his home island. So you only have to take half your opponent's land to neutralize or at least greatly reduce them as a threat, instead of all of it (so long as you remain vigilant). Or am I smoke?

This is one of the interesting aspects of archipelago/island maps, and this is just another application of that.

Just remember culture rules for cities on different landmasses.

The thought has occurred to me ...

I think that's the win condition for this map.

[Old Harry]

Just remember culture rules for cities on different landmasses.

I've been puzzling over some odd things on the PB18 map and come to the conclusion that while a city can only put culture into a tile that can be worked from a city on it's landmass (ignoring peaks) it can use it's borders to claim more distant tiles that a different city put sufficient culture into after that other city disappears. Am I close?

[Krill]

Dunno. Ask T-hawk or Seven.

[TheHumanHydra]

This is one of the interesting aspects of archipelago/island maps, and this is just another application of that.

Just remember culture rules for cities on different landmasses.

Thanks; I'll try and remember to look into that.

The thought has occurred to me ...

I think that's the win condition for this map.

Looks like we have ourselves a mission!


This turn Miguelitos built the Great Library as well as his first (visible) Numidian Cavalry.

[ipecac]

@ipecac: Yes! Thank you for reminding me. Does anyone have any thoughts as to which city would be best?

? will just be too slow. Virgin Planet will give the fastest return because it can grow scarily fast to use all the water tiles.