Pitboss 18 IT and Tech Issues Thread

[Bacchus]

Congratulations to everyone on the conclusion of an epic adventure! Is this a global sort of achievement, or have MP games of this size been successfully ran to conclusion before? In any case, we should really try chronicling and posting around on friendly fora and communities.

And I am in awe of the endurance shown by all the parties in the last stretch, incredible stuff.

[WilliamLP]

GG everyone! Now I'm starting to see what Krill means about the fallout from this game lasting a while...

Not worth much, since I'm not a ref, but my ruling would be that post #1 of the tech thread was made by Plako, a participant in game, so a literal reading of his understanding might not be the most authoritative. I don't know if I ever read that, and I certainly thought non-literal signaling trades were legal, e.g. sheep for sheep isn't made for the strategic purpose of tying down the resource.

I thought that Commodore and Sullla were the original moderators, and Comm's take on it was:

My iron fist opinion:
Don't spell stuff. Obviously.
Fish-for-fish stuff is fine. Trying to be Sevenishly cryptic "iron + horse +7gpt means incoming knights in seven turns" is a grey area; I think it's often enough hilariously misinterpreted that it should be fine.
No cities offered unless at war seems reasonable. Cuts reasonable sales out, but "reasonable" is hella fraught.

I'd definitely put TBS's offer in the grey area. What I thought was meant by Plako's summary was no using lexograpic (spelling text with cities, e.c.) or explicit timer info, that nature. But... "no cities offered unless..." is pretty clear here too.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Seriously if people think that unit gifts were breaking rules then I'm pretty sure that I've broken that rule more than a few times myself...

If I had controlled BGNs empire from t190 I think domination by around t250 would have been possible. And one GA. You ditched me in a potential war to the death with dtay. I was not impressed.

What? We enabled you to chop your neighbour in half and stayed at war with him for ten turns after you stopped doing anything just to give you cover. Did you have a brilliant plan to destroy him in place that we didn't notice? Was going off to pick a fight with Ruff while we were covering your back just subtle misdirection?

When would you have won by if you were in control of our empire?

He means my empire. But he's wrong. The problem most front runners have is they underestimate opponents. If I had been a doormat perhaps Krill would be right. But apparently I'm not a doormat and I would have been every bit as implacable and spiteful as Krill was when thwarted. No. He would not have had a domination victory as he thinks had we changed places. My mistake was thinking my opponents would play neutrally for their best interest going forward. Looking back, attempting to win a space race was not right. Building as many guns as possible and playing for second place while beating spiteful enemies into the dirt would have been better. But I tried to win in spite of Krill and Joey. I feel I did well enough in this circumstance.

[Qgqqqqq]

Oh man. I understand the temptation to read between the lines, but what is there in the rule that can be misinterpreted? It bans "trade offers that are not real" and offering your culture city definitely isn't a real trade offer.

If you insist then obviously we'll need a third party ruling and surely the named admins are the ones that should vote/decide/whatever is possible to organize.

I need to go to sleep now, OH might be still awake to continue the discussion.

Personal interpretation (I am by no means an admin):

1. that is most definitely not explicitly against the quoted rule any more than any Iron for Rice offer is, which were definitely peddled with frequency
1a) the intention of said rule seems largely pointed against spelling out messages via cities; a la Sevenspirits/Novice's trades in the PBEM23 game
1b) beyond that it hinges on the use of "real trade". If we consider that to mean "was not intended to be accepted", than it is most certainly against the rules, however there were a large number of similar offers made which were also not meant to be accepted. As TBS has said, the focus is on the communication matter, and I would say that insofar as it was meant to propose a unit trade, it is not primarily communication, and that a Iron for Rice archetype trade is more focused around the intent to communicate than was this
2. This does not preclude it being a shady/questionable move, which I'll leave alone

[plako]

First of all. Congratulations to TBS and other front runners. Very well played.

Concerning the ongoing rules discussion. I'm disappointed to the amount of diplomacy conducted. Totally against the spirit of the rule. Also anyone offering cities was violating the letter of the rule. City trades were banned so no real trade offer could include them.

I also feel this game is also better without GP trading/gifting, but that was not forbidden here. I'm just mildly annoyed that there has been sufficient amount of diplo conducted to feel that TBS and Joey were allied. This is something I've hoped AI-diplo would prevent.

[sunrise089]

I got PM'd about a potential joint ruling needed, but it appears above that the game is over. Is all settled?

[Fintourist]

I got PM'd about a potential joint ruling needed, but it appears above that the game is over. Is all settled?

Thanks, the ruling is still needed. The discussion started ~30 posts before this.

[Krill]

Seriously if people think that unit gifts were breaking rules then I'm pretty sure that I've broken that rule more than a few times myself...

If I had controlled BGNs empire from t190 I think domination by around t250 would have been possible. And one GA. You ditched me in a potential war to the death with dtay. I was not impressed.

What? We enabled you to chop your neighbour in half and stayed at war with him for ten turns after you stopped doing anything just to give you cover. Did you have a brilliant plan to destroy him in place that we didn't notice? Was going off to pick a fight with Ruff while we were covering your back just subtle misdirection?

When would you have won by if you were in control of our empire?

He means my empire. But he's wrong. The problem most front runners have is they underestimate opponents. If I had been a doormat perhaps Krill would be right. But apparently I'm not a doormat and I would have been every bit as implacable and spiteful as Krill was when thwarted. No. He would not have had a domination victory as he thinks had we changed places. My mistake was thinking my opponents would play neutrally for their best interest going forward. Looking back, attempting to win a space race was not right. Building as many guns as possible and playing for second place while beating spiteful enemies into the dirt would have been better. But I tried to win in spite of Krill and Joey. I feel I did well enough in this circumstance.

I don't mean Ii I captured your cities, I mean if I had logged into the Russian civ from t190 and played your turns.

[Krill]

Seriously if people think that unit gifts were breaking rules then I'm pretty sure that I've broken that rule more than a few times myself...

If I had controlled BGNs empire from t190 I think domination by around t250 would have been possible. And one GA. You ditched me in a potential war to the death with dtay. I was not impressed.

What? We enabled you to chop your neighbour in half and stayed at war with him for ten turns after you stopped doing anything just to give you cover. Did you have a brilliant plan to destroy him in place that we didn't notice? Was going off to pick a fight with Ruff while we were covering your back just subtle misdirection?

When would you have won by if you were in control of our empire?

He means my empire. But he's wrong. The problem most front runners have is they underestimate opponents. If I had been a doormat perhaps Krill would be right. But apparently I'm not a doormat and I would have been every bit as implacable and spiteful as Krill was when thwarted. No. He would not have had a domination victory as he thinks had we changed places. My mistake was thinking my opponents would play neutrally for their best interest going forward. Looking back, attempting to win a space race was not right. Building as many guns as possible and playing for second place while beating spiteful enemies into the dirt would have been better. But I tried to win in spite of Krill and Joey. I feel I did well enough in this circumstance.

I don't mean Ii I captured your cities, I mean if I had logged into the Russian civ from t190 and played your turns.

[Qgqqqqq]

Seriously if people think that unit gifts were breaking rules then I'm pretty sure that I've broken that rule more than a few times myself...

If I had controlled BGNs empire from t190 I think domination by around t250 would have been possible. And one GA. You ditched me in a potential war to the death with dtay. I was not impressed.

What? We enabled you to chop your neighbour in half and stayed at war with him for ten turns after you stopped doing anything just to give you cover. Did you have a brilliant plan to destroy him in place that we didn't notice? Was going off to pick a fight with Ruff while we were covering your back just subtle misdirection?

When would you have won by if you were in control of our empire?

He means my empire. But he's wrong. The problem most front runners have is they underestimate opponents. If I had been a doormat perhaps Krill would be right. But apparently I'm not a doormat and I would have been every bit as implacable and spiteful as Krill was when thwarted. No. He would not have had a domination victory as he thinks had we changed places. My mistake was thinking my opponents would play neutrally for their best interest going forward. Looking back, attempting to win a space race was not right. Building as many guns as possible and playing for second place while beating spiteful enemies into the dirt would have been better. But I tried to win in spite of Krill and Joey. I feel I did well enough in this circumstance.

I don't mean Ii I captured your cities, I mean if I had logged into the Russian civ from t190 and played your turns.