September 15th, 2017, 09:34
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I'm not saying don't try and change their mind, I'm saying that going with the "you are wrong/stupid for holding position XXX and here is why", followed by a withering argument as to why isn't going to work. How about starting with "position XXX seems to have some valid points to it, but there are also some things I don't understand. Can you explain it better to to me?" Winning these people back isn't going to happen in one conversation. Its going to take time. But it can happen with the right approach.
Darrell
September 15th, 2017, 10:06
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I'm still not convinced Trump is a worse leader than Hillary would have been...
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September 15th, 2017, 10:12
(This post was last modified: September 15th, 2017, 10:14 by Mr. Cairo.)
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(September 15th, 2017, 09:34)darrelljs Wrote: I'm not saying don't try and change their mind, I'm saying that going with the "you are wrong/stupid for holding position XXX and here is why", followed by a withering argument as to why isn't going to work. How about starting with "position XXX seems to have some valid points to it, but there are also some things I don't understand. Can you explain it better to to me?" Winning these people back isn't going to happen in one conversation. Its going to take time. But it can happen with the right approach.
Darrell
When position XXX is "Obama is the antichrist" or "gay marriage is going to ruin society" or "all Muslims are terrorists" where are you supposed to start? Where's the common ground? Because those are the views of the people dems are apparently supposed to be courting. The Democrats don't need to, nor should they try to, attract hardcore Trump voters.
The problem the Democrats have had for most of the current millennium is one of branding.
People hated Obamacare, but liked the ACA. People like social security but hate "welfare".
Bernie Sanders is proposing healthcare reform called Medicare For All, which polls quite well. But call it government funded single payer healthcare and suddenly people don't like it.
But now the Democrats have a well-motivated and engaged Base, the kind the Republicans have been cultivating for decades, who don't believe the Fox news bullshit. Is it any wonder the protesters are endlessly vilified by the right wing media? They're terrified.
September 15th, 2017, 10:14
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(September 15th, 2017, 10:06)Krill Wrote: I'm still not convinced Trump is a worse leader than Hillary would have been...
Admit it. You voted for Brexit.
Darrell
September 15th, 2017, 11:37
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I freely admit that.
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September 15th, 2017, 12:22
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And the thread comes full circle  .
Darrell
September 15th, 2017, 17:16
Bobchillingworth
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(September 15th, 2017, 09:34)darrelljs Wrote: I'm not saying don't try and change their mind, I'm saying that going with the "you are wrong/stupid for holding position XXX and here is why", followed by a withering argument as to why isn't going to work. How about starting with "position XXX seems to have some valid points to it, but there are also some things I don't understand. Can you explain it better to to me?" Winning these people back isn't going to happen in one conversation. Its going to take time. But it can happen with the right approach.
Darrell
But people have been providing well-reasoned and respectful arguments in favor of progressive policies for decades, only to get rejected out-of-hand by people who reflexively counter with nonsense like "he'd never pass 70% due to all the people who get their news from CNN" (as though the network that routinely inflicted Jeffrey Lord on the American public has an unshakeable and counterfactual liberal bias).
Look, I don't want to be rude, at least not to you, but I think we're past the point where all liberal arguments must be reduced to mush so as not to violate Middle (white) America's sacred mental safe space.
September 15th, 2017, 18:23
(This post was last modified: September 15th, 2017, 18:23 by greenline.)
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(September 15th, 2017, 10:12)Mr. Cairo Wrote: When position XXX is "Obama is the antichrist" or "gay marriage is going to ruin society" or "all Muslims are terrorists" where are you supposed to start? Where's the common ground? Because those are the views of the people dems are apparently supposed to be courting. The Democrats don't need to, nor should they try to, attract hardcore Trump voters.
Where's the common ground with people who think it's the white man's burden to subsidize moving Mexico's population over here? Or that the Nordic model can be copied word for word over to the States despite all evidence pointing to the contrary? 
September 15th, 2017, 20:28
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Those filthy immigrants you detest subsidize you.
September 15th, 2017, 20:44
(This post was last modified: September 15th, 2017, 20:46 by Commodore.)
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(September 15th, 2017, 20:28)Nicolae Carpathia Wrote: Those filthy immigrants you detest subsidize you.
Not great rhetoric; the hostility tends to undermine any point you're making. Reads like projection.
Also it's a completely innumerate claim going by the 2014 budget.
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