[SPOILERS] How do you make this thing work: Krill randomly mashes some buttons

[Bacchus]

In isolation, I think a straight up discount to the melee line would at least make them viable as defenders, without making an attack impossible: with, say, 4 cities, 4 melee units are not enough to fend off 4 cavalry units, barring very favourable terrain. And of course on offensive 4 melee units are just laughable in comparison to 4 cav. So maybe set melee unit costs at something like 4/5 of the equivalent era cavalry unit?

I wouldn't boost melee movement, as it just makes them a different type of cav, and the choice falls down not to whether you want to conduct offensive or defensive operations, but to whether you have hills or flat. So no choice to make at all.

But in fairness, melee probably shouldn't be solved in isolation, as anti-cav requires work, and if that is changed, melee's role would change. "Anti-cav" should probably be called something like "Line infantry" whilst melee is "Shock infantry" or "Linebreaker infantry", at least that seems to be Firaxis's idea. The problem is of course, that even if this was the idea, it's wasn't followed up on, because then it's anti-cav/line that should be on the main tech path and melee/shock that should be on the wings. If that was the case, the game would make sense -- the main offensive capability is cavalry, the main defensive capability is anti-cav, melee is point support to punch a hole through a defensive line that can then be exploited by the cavalry, ensuring entrenchment can always be broken and the game doesn't stalemate.

There's ranged, but that's just like a completely different approach to modelling combat slapped on top of the "wargamey" battle of the hexes. But because it just sits on top, enjoining "whatever you do, bring ranged", it doesn't really affect the other system.

Firaxis tried to do this with strategic resource requirements, which isn't going to work for map-curated games like RB plays.
And the lead designer really should have known better than to try this approach. Especially as they went completely against it in making all UUs resource-free.

[TheArchduke]

It all hinges on the fact that you can not boost spearman builds by cards. Or boost them with GGs.

[Bacchus]

They are also hideously expensive. Spear is 65 against horse's 80, even disregarding the policy discount once you get horses there is no point in spears, as horses are a better counter to horses, and of course vastly better in all other roles.

But yeah, a lack of policy card just adds insult to injury. Again, it would make sense if anticav was just line infantry -- universally cheap, no need to adopt a card for discount. Instead it's universally expensive.

[Krill]

Here is an example: to raze Pan Meis encampment I have to put a unit on that tile.

Even with if ranged drops it to zero health, I still take damage attacking it. Ranged then pelts the attacking unit and it dies.

This seems to be true as a tactic for any offensive action, it's a production cost inherent to attacking.

Making siege breakers cheaper helps with this sort of cost. Personally I think they ought to have some sort of ability the based around, you know, not dying, but that's just me.

[Krill]

Busy week.

Jester wanted a DoF. I have been working on a plan to attack him with a 3 pronged assault, but I then realised I slightly fucked up the civic cards and don't really want to go through the rigmarole of the attack. It's far enough away, with minimal investment in it, that I'm quite happy to play builder for the rest of this game with no illusions that I can actually win. So I declined the DoF and offered Citrus for Cotton trade. I may have multiple citrus but Jester has the ability to settle for more cotton and sugar, so I wanted to test the water. Jester accepted so I replied with DoF.

Looks like I'm back to building and not throwing 20 units at him in 20 turns.

[Krill]

Stream of conciousness time.

With a 30 turn window of not giving a fuck, what can I do.

I am about to finish 4 builders. I could also get a fifth builder from CS. I think I'll do that, because I'm going to need 16 actions just to prepare the three IZ I have planned.

Feudalism is less than one turn from completion. I want to finish that when the the two builders in MS and Corinth (I keep on meaning to rename that) are 2 turns from finishing, ie eot92. I will have builders at 67/74 (CS), 65/74 (VV), 66/74 (EF), 65/74 (MS), 72/74 (Corinth). So on T93 I lose Iikum and go into Serfdom. What I need to do is to change the micro to get MS slightly more production, so MS and Corinth finish builders on eot93, raising the bar to 82, and then finish the rest of the builders on eot95. I don't think I can get them finish eot94, except maybe CS, but I'd like the production "monster" that is CS to get the last builder. This would likely have to happen eot96, so I should plan to swap civic cards again T97...except I don't think that works either, so likely I need to tweak production slightly, put another turn into the builders in VV and EF to get them to 72/73 production by eot92. Trivial to accomplish.

This means that I should have the ability to swap cards T93 and T97. I finish Fuedalism eot92, and finish Mil Training eot96. I will have to hop between civics over the next few turns, but I can get Recorded History half completed by researching it on T91, T93, T94, and then putting culture into Theology on T95, or into Medi Faires.

What cards am I going to want? Conscription gives me 9gpt, and I can only swap out of Autocracy into Oligarchy, so I have to run at least 1 red card. Conscription is kept. That leaves one red, one yellow and two wild cards. I want to keep Revelation because fuck it, I want to dick about with religion and it gets me an envoy with Carthage. UP is kept because duh, Serfdom is in another slot, so just one red card...but no, I really want to use the envoys from Mil Training and from the Acropolis...dump one each into Carthage and Valetta. Hmmm.

OK, compromise, give up UP for the period of using Serfdom, use Diplomatic League, and use Limes in the Red slot....ah fuck.

by T93 I will have 560 gold saved. I want to buy tiles costing 140 gold each (one for amenity, one for Entertainment district). Land Surveyors saves me 56 gold, that's 14 gold per turn if used for 4 turns. Add in a tile wanted for IZ placement (90 gold) and I think that it's a no brainer given those assumptions.

So, how to fit in Revelations, Land Surveyors, Serfdom and Diplomatic League into 3 slots? Answer: Give up Revelation, which is a per turn boost, and has the least impact over 4 turns. And suck up Limes.

On T97, swap into Conscription/Revelation/Urban Planning/Colonization and Limes.

Other point: With 30 builder actions, I am going to be chopping a bunch of forests around MS and Corinth (2 to for mines, 2 for IZ). I can get a settler out of Corinth (plus the IZ) and CS. I would like a third settler, but I'm not sure if I can get it out of MS. CS can just hard build it, but I would prefer to grab the Entertainment district for the envoy in Lisbon. Maybe after that. Those three settlers allow two to be sent towards Lisbon, and the third (or probably first) be sent to the area east of VV, set back to an easy border.


So plans for individual cities:

CS: 1) Trader, 2) Builder 3) Entertainment District (Lisbon Suzerain) 4) Settler
VV: 1) Builder, 2) Campus (Recorded History inspiration), 3) Granary?
EF: 1) Builder, 2) IZ, 3) Campus (cow harvest for growth),
Scombridae: 1) Who gives a shit, comments below
MS: 1) Builder, 2) Walls (100% bonus production = instant IZ), 3) IZ, 4) Settler
Corinth: 1) Builder, 2) Walls, 3) IZ, 4) Settler

MS and Corinth are actually dependent on Builder movement, because I need to chop two tiles to then place IZ, but I don't want to wait to place the IZ as I can't get the discount at all (in fact, likely to use the IZ to get discount on future districts). I am close to finishing Chivalry and 1 turn from Machinery, so costs are about to go higher.

Scombridae is just fucked. Turns out it has very limited production, and the only harvestable tile is the stone. The only tile that could have had an IZ is where the stupid CS put the HS. I'm all out of ideas how to make it useful for anything. I feel like I shafted myself by taking it, but at the same time I also know that I needed the city for safety (plus Jester Suzerained it so it had to die).

[Krill]

And just to drill in how I'm kinda fucked:

Science: 1) Arabia, 33.5SPT, 18 techs. 2) Rome, unknown. 3) Pin 35.4SPT, 17 techs. 4) Me, 26.5SPT, 15 techs. 5) Jester 18.7SPT, 15 techs

Culture: 1) Pin, 42.8CPT, 14 civics. 2) Rome, unknown, 14 civics. 3) Me 23CPT, 11 Civics. 4) Arabia, 20.8CPT, 12 civics, 5) Jester, 15.3CPT, 11 civics

Domination: 1) Me, 318, 2) Pin 283, 3) Jester 205, 4) Rome unknown, 5) Arabia 119 (looks like every else started really far apart but me and Jester were close, then map/barbs pushed us closer).

Religion: 1) Pin 18.3FPT, 2) Arabia 12FPT, 3) Me 1FPT

My view: If I had the amenities, I'd be more comfortable getting out those few settlers, but I think I'm running myself into a dead end

[Krill]

Also, the next trade route runs from Corinth, to get the road, but I'm not sure if I should send it to EF (2 food, 1 hammers), or to Sun Zhou for 1 production and 6 gold. I suppose it will depend on what the roads will look like, because the food doesn't help too much, but then the gold is not going to help me more than the 31gpt I make already does.

[Krill]

Frankly, advice, even advice tellling me what I've done wrong so far, what could be done better, is appreciated.

[suboptimal]

First update in 14 turns so it's a bit hard to see how you got here from Turn 76....a couple of questions:

- why do you want the IZ's, in particular, three of them? Commercial hubs for trade routes might be a better option. Internal trade routes would be able to provide some additional to places like Scombridae.

- It might be worth putting the Colosseum down somewhere it can reach at least your four main cities. That'd generate 2 and 3 amenities per city within 6 tiles. The jungle hex 36 of Musa Sapientum would cover all of your cities plus a coastal backfill west of Musa. The Entertainment District would then go on the spot 3 of Musa.

- What city-states has your civ met besides Lisbon?

- Would it be possible for a builder to harvest the stone to complete the walls at Scombridae with Limes slotted? With reasonable micro it might be possible to put the overflow into a Campus in order to get sme more science.

- Are there any cities without monuments?