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(August 12th, 2018, 21:09)ipecac Wrote: So your statement that the 'refugees' make up "less than 1%" of EU population is totally irrelevant, since they're clearly not evenly spread out.
They're not evenly spread out because a few racist islamophobe heads of state in eastern europe refused all ideas proposing to spread them out, and some not-as-racist not-as-islamophobe heads of states in western europe weren't too concerned about it to pressure the others into doing it. That's what made Italy take most of the influx, which is why they've turned to racist islamophobes in the last election. That was entirely the other EU heads of states' fault.
"Nationalism is unstoppable" may be your wet dream but fortunately it has been stopped in many places.
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Quote:Not in Europe, "Nationalist" parties have not won a major election anywhere except Eastern Europe,
They have in Switzerland, but that's not a particularly new phenomenon. In other countries nationalist parties are not winning, but they are doing an order of magnitude better electorally than they used to -- whether Lega in Italy or SD in Sweden. SD actually have an outside shot at winning a plurality this year. Dutch PVV hasn't seen much of a rise recently, but then it was one of the first on that scene and is a pretty strange creature organisationally.
August 13th, 2018, 04:25
(This post was last modified: August 13th, 2018, 04:26 by Coeurva.)
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(August 13th, 2018, 03:47)Bacchus Wrote: In other countries nationalist parties are not winning, but they are doing an order of magnitude better electorally than they used to Which in Germany's case incidentally means that we're going to see Grand Coalitions at the federal level till the end of time. That's one way to turn "Politikverdrossenheit" favourable towards the established parties after all... 
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Well, the whole European post-war party system is living its last days anyway, the key issues and battle lines are just different now, so the permanent grand coalitioning may well just speed up party realignment.
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(August 12th, 2018, 23:34)Japper007 Wrote: We'll see about America, remember that Trump didn't even win 2016 (didn't come close to having the popular vote, even when running against a very divided Democratic party) and 2020 is not near to being bagged yet. Maybe he is only the last very ugly outbreak of acne before America gets over it's last "phase" and joins the Western World as a truly modern democracy.
Also wow in your own words the "Nationalism" that is supposed to be winning here is Fascist, far right and racist. I hope that is not the Nationalism you'd like to see win.  Honestly, I think Tom Wolfe's aphorism is relevant here:
Tom Wolfe Wrote:the dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe . More context here: http://volokh.com/2006/02/14/tom-wolfe-on-fascism/
For all the rhetoric about fascism in America, we've got basically none of it going on. We just had another 'Unite the Right' rally in DC (the same people as the Charlottesville protest last year with the death)... almost two dozen people showed up! They were probably outnumbered by the reporters! I'm still more worried about antifa - they're the only ones who act like Brownshirts without always getting arrested in response. Even there, most jurisdictions will prosecute them for assault and battery and the anti-Klan mask laws and so on, so they don't seem to be growing like they were.
Maybe it's different in Europe, maybe y'all have the real thing, but here, it's really just a lot of people throwing around the nastiest insult they can think of.
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The US is currently de-naturalizing migrants, so going "fascism isn't a threat" and that the real threat is anti-fascism is some panglossian shit.
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(August 13th, 2018, 02:38)AdrienIer Wrote: They're not evenly spread out because a few racist islamophobe heads of state in eastern europe refused all ideas proposing to spread them out, and some not-as-racist not-as-islamophobe heads of states in western europe weren't too concerned about it to pressure the others into doing it. That's what made Italy take most of the influx, which is why they've turned to racist islamophobes in the last election. That was entirely the other EU heads of states' fault.
Now other countries have to take the brunt, which means they'll turn nationalistic too,
Quote:"Nationalism is unstoppable" may be your wet dream but fortunately it has been stopped in many places.
...therefore it's unstoppable.
August 14th, 2018, 03:26
(This post was last modified: August 14th, 2018, 03:26 by Bacchus.)
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>> the dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe
>> it reports on a panel discussion at Princeton in 1965
At first I thought -- this coming right in the middle of the civil rights movement is as white, insulated and self-congratulatory as it gets, complete with smug chuckles. Then I went to check out more about that Princeton conference, and guess what, that quote is from a literal Waffen-SS officer! Fancy that!
August 14th, 2018, 08:14
(This post was last modified: August 14th, 2018, 08:26 by Mardoc.)
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(August 14th, 2018, 03:26)Bacchus Wrote: >> the dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe
>> it reports on a panel discussion at Princeton in 1965
At first I thought -- this coming right in the middle of the civil rights movement is as white, insulated and self-congratulatory as it gets, complete with smug chuckles. Then I went to check out more about that Princeton conference, and guess what, that quote is from a literal Waffen-SS officer! Fancy that! I think you've misread the link. It's true that Gunther Grass was at the discussion, and his description of life in Nazi Germany was used by Wolfe as evidence - but the quote was Tom Wolfe, not Grass. I suppose you can claim that a participant in fascism wouldn't know anything about how fascism works or looks, if you want to dismiss Grass' comments. I don't think you can claim Wolfe was wrong, though. There have been fifty more years of non-fascist US history after he made the quip, after all, complete with fifty years of fearmongering that fascism is right around the corner.
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(August 13th, 2018, 16:19)Mardoc Wrote: For all the rhetoric about fascism in America, we've got basically none of it going on. ... it's really just a lot of people throwing around the nastiest insult they can think of.
This is correct. Trump and his administration are so fascist, that literally nobody is afraid of speaking out against them on any platform whatsoever.
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