RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Beamup]

Speaker just completely destroyed whatever sympathy I had for India on this one:

3. Krill never should have been appointed to administer anything.
4. Spullla will only move within the last minute of the turn from here on out. We apologize in advance to all the other players in the game for wasting as many as 11 hours of their time per turn, but this is the necessary evil of our poor "Double Move" rule. Being able to slave/draft after your play period, in response to the attackers unit movement is unfair to the attacker, so we will not give our opponents the opportunity.

They agreed to Krill's appointment, so this is just WAY out of line.

It's really too bad how much bickering goes on here. Bad sportsmanship all around (on India this time, on others other times).

[Krill]

To say that Athlete was hindered by this is not really convincing either, as he got to mass slave in the second half of the turn, when his go is in the first.

Been over this point before, if you can't slave at any point in the turn, whoever moves second can react to the situation 1 turn sooner. You need to be able to slave at any point in the turn. IIRC, this got forced on Byz this game, and it didn;t work.

I have said it before, but these rules create so much more aggro and loopholes than either allowing double moves or simply dividing the timer in half after the declaration depending on who logs in first in the turn.

There is 1 mistake in them, that got brought to my attention a few days ago. However, the mention of loopholes is unfounded, but if you can find them,bring them to attention here and we can try to fix them.

Set the rule that if you are declaring war, you must log in after your opponent to claim second half of the turn, as that is easy to see on civstats if they have done so or not. I know that people like to log in early to just look around, but players don't declare war on a whim so will accept the 'inconvenience' fopr just one turn if they are desperate for the 2nd half! Then simply say, you do EVERYTHING in your allotted half of the timer and that is it.

The rule as stated never gives the attacker the choice to get the second half. No one gets to choose though, who gets what half depends on who moved last, and the defender is always given the chance to react unless the defender is already in a war. That is less exploitable than the RBPB3 rule, and much clearer.

This current rule just smacks of over complication and is full of grounds for exploitation.

Compared to the week long pause from RBPB3?

Reloading now compromises so much information for so little gain that it is pointless. If you are going to reload just so everyone does the same moves again, but all at the same time, then what is the point?

If the attacker fucked up because they didn't read the rule, then it is their fault that they have shown their hand.

[Twinkletoes89]

I agree that Speaker has gone into stupid mode and overreacted to MWIN and then shouldn't have taken a pop at Krill. No need to make things personal. When they act like this, I sometimes wonder if this game would not have been played in such a bad atmosphere if they weren't in it.

I still think letting it be is the best option, if only to calm tensions for no huge benefit, but that is Krill's decision.

EDIT: Just to say Krill, I do not like PB3's rule either. I sympathise with the slaving issue (now that I understand it better) but I just am not convinced how a balance can be struck, its a very sticky issue. Maybe slaving outside of window only allowed in the turn of declaration of war?

[Krill]

I agree that Speaker has gone into stupid mode and overreacted to MWIN and then shouldn't have taken a pop at Krill. No need to make things personal. When they act like this, I sometimes wonder if this game would not have been played in such a bad atmosphere if they weren't in it.

I still think letting it be is the best option, if only to calm tensions for no huge benefit, but that is Krill's decision.

Just cause a bratty kid throws a temper tantrum, doesn't mean you go and give him ice cream to make him STFU.

[Krill]

If someone attacks us, giving us the first half of the turn....being in Nationalism, we could see which city they move their units next to on Turn 1, draft the threatened city that same turn. Slave a unit from scratch that same turn as well. Then draft the city again the following turn. So we respond after their unit movement and get 3 units in the city. The population doesn't matter. If we didn't do all that, we'd lose the city anyways. Does that seem fair?

If someone invaded Spullla, for Spullla to get the first half of the turn they could not move, draft, upgrade or promote units, doing so counts as movement. They can slave.

The turn roles, then they draft and move the unit, and move the slaved unit, so they get a maximum of 2 units to move on that turn from a city. Drafting twice would be a double move.

[Serdoa]

Krill I am with you that the question about a reload should not be based on how the players act but on what is best for the game.

[Jowy]

That's fine, but most likely we will not be spending any more time on a game with such clearly flawed rules, that require us to cheese the turn timer to avoid them. You can see the completely legal situation I described in our thread, for more info.

Are they actually thinking of resigning?

[Twinkletoes89]

Are they actually thinking of resigning?

I doubt it. They are just making as much of a threat as they can to sway the ruling.

but if they want to resign over this, then let them. Its their loss.

[Kristian95]

just being curious here, but wouldn't a reload only be ok if all players repeat their moves exactly, except for Spullla only moving in the 1st half of their half of the turn? (i.e. the 3rd quarter of the turn)?

I can understand the want for a reload with rules being broken, but if all this is simply to ensure that Kathlete gets a caravel finished, I am sure everyone of the players would prefer a caravel to be WB'ed for Kathlete rather than a laborious reload.

If all previous moves are not 100% replicated I would say the reload would be a cheat as it will enable Kathlete to change the course of actions drastically because of them knowing where the attack comes, what units etc.

All I can say is that all the drama in this game has put me off of Pitboss for sure, not that I'd ever stand a chance with my limited civ skills anyway

[T-hawk]

All I can say is that all the drama in this game has put me off of Pitboss for sure

It's worth noting that Pitboss can do sequential turns. That behaves just like PBEM except that players can still log in anytime to look (including multiple players on a team for one civ.) The CFC multi team game was sequential Pitboss IIRC.

I can understand the want for a reload with rules being broken

I'm not quite sure who exactly is asking for a reload, if anyone actually is. Athlete seems to be perfectly happy to have whipped the janissary instead of a caravel in that one city.