RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[sunrise089]

Kristian95, no they don't. When monasteries go obsolete when Scientific Method is discovered, they lose all of AP hammers, Sankore beakers, Spiral Minaret gold, and Sistine Chapel culture. They continue to provide only two effects: the 2 base culture and the ability to build missionaries of that religion.

I know if Monasteries didn't expire they'd have a very good beakers+culture/hammer ration, worse than a library but better than any other building IIRC. Because they obsolete, where do then rank T-Hawk? Are they ever worth building before a University (excluding when you need borders popped ASAP)? Are they worth building at all once you reach the Ren era?

[Ilios]

So they lose the 10% beakers as well?

[Krill]

Yup. They are pretty sucky once the Ren era comes around, probably only the AP monasteries are worthwhile building, because they will refund some of their cost.

[T-hawk]

I know if Monasteries didn't expire they'd have a very good beakers+culture/hammer ration, worse than a library but better than any other building IIRC. Because they obsolete, where do then rank T-Hawk? Are they ever worth building before a University (excluding when you need borders popped ASAP)? Are they worth building at all once you reach the Ren era?

Beakers/hammer is tied with observatory, so if you don't need the culture, a monastery is better for pure beakers because it starts producing sooner. But yes, expiration makes the monastery wrong.

AP monasteries are always worth building up until 20 turns before Sci Meth, since they will pay for themselves in hammers (with forge and Org Rel.)

Non-AP monasteries pretty much never outside of a Bureaucratic capital. Sometimes early in a big commerce border city (our Bombay in RBTS10 was perfect), but never after Education/Astro. And the monastery is only worth it if the religion happens to already be there; 100 hammers (plus failure chance) for a missionary+monastery is too much for anything besides a Bureaucracy capital.

A Bureaucratic capital will usually build them all, even pretty close to Sci Meth. The payoff on both sides of Bureau means it's better than double the standard beaker/hammer ratio: Instead of +10%/60, it is +15%/40. And a Bureau capital always runs out of things to build, plus the missionary-building ability can be useful. Also think if you'll be going Free Religion later meaning you need the monasteries ahead of time; ironically the civic that most benefits from extra missionaries takes you out of the civic that allows building them.

One last case: culture victory where you don't even reach Sci Meth. 2 culture / 60 hammers is the next thing to build after all the cathedrals are completed. If culture is at +400%, that is payback in 6 turns over building Culture.

(excluding when you need borders popped ASAP)?

See, this is one effect that annoys me about monasteries. 2 culture for 60 hammers is a decent deal. But it never helps to actually pop the border, since the religion is a prerequisite which itself produces culture. Very rarely the case comes up where a city has a foreign religion, needs a border pop, and you can't/won't send a missionary of your own religion.

[Krill]

It helps you reach 40% though, which is important for many reasons.

[darrelljs]

You also might want to build one or two if you aren't going to be in OR post SM, but plan on still spreading a religion around.

EDIT: I just notice T-Hawk implied this already .

Darrell

[MJW (ya that one)]

I wonder which "puzzle" is more simpler. HRE/Plako figuring out the DoW or this at the 37 minute mark.

[sunrise089]

It helps you reach 40% though, which is important for many reasons.

Yeah, that's what I meant T-Hawk - like a cultural battle with an AI/Human where you want to pop to the next level sooner, and a Monastery lets you get the culture applied earlier than a University.

[Serdoa]

Took your info about unit teleportation to the India thread Krill - guess if you post it in HREs thread it means that this does only answer a game mechanic question which - if answered - both should know as both seemed not to know exactly how it worked.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I really look forward to the upcoming India/HRE war. With the exception of Spulla v. 5-way and Nakor v. Athlete (kind of), we haven't really had any good tactical planning and warring to watch. Now, finally, we will have both sides using good war time tactics and strategies. And even if there are mistakes and blunders, we will get to see reasoning on both sides.

For instance... Sullla writing about HRE moving to the forest, chastising Dantski for leaving the forest, and HRE writing about different options --- one of which was moving onto the forest. Now this is exciting...