RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Bobchillingworth]

I think there are way too many people around who willingly switch alliances for no real advantage... I honestly don't think Korea can win even if they switch alliance to HRE... if they stick with India, I think at least they can claim that they have played an honorable game, something which I personally think MP games lack way too much of even at RB.... and a reason I won't play MP games...

*Shrug*, this isn't a tech-trading game, nor one with Permanent Alliances or even Vassalage. I'm not even sure if they have an NAP. Korea isn't married to India, and I don't think that they owe them anything at this point. Certainly they aren't so in Spulla's debit that they should hand them a victory.

Besides, a true friend would make India have to fight for the win, to ensure that it isn't hollow =)

[WilliamLP]

We're not interested in playing the sort of clock games that athlete enjoyed, so please feel free to play your turn any time after Dantski and our team have ended our turns.

If HRE actually manages to put one of Spullla's cities under threat, we'll see how averse they are to "clock games" if they have something to gain from deciding whether to whip or not based on that turn's action.

Of course Athlete did this only out of "self interest" whereas Spullla is always altruistic toward the greater good of the community atmosphere and the group as a whole.

[Jowy]

lol

[Selrahc]

Hahaha. Unreal. India tries to force their "ally" to pay tribute. Dantski is understandably annoyed at this and really doesn't want to pay, but doesn't see much choice with the Holy Roman Rifles bearing down on him. And then into this situation..

7. Offered peace to Dantski along with the city of Walata - we gain nothing by continuing the war with him. If he accepts then it would be a great stroke of luck for us as we could teleport our units back to our territory, bypassing the mountains.

HRE offers Dantski peace. Giving Dantski an escape to this horrible little war, and letting him survive.

If India lose Dantski's support it really is their own fault for trying to squeeze him for change. That was really two simple mistakes.

1.The amount is going to be peanuts to them, but a lot to Dantski. Putting a shaky alliance under pressure for little reason isn't good diplomacy.

2. Doing it retroactively. If India wanted compensation for going into this conflict then they should have mentioned it before hand. This is like some sort of protection scheme. Arranging something before hand is honest(if not friendly), doing it afterwards is just exploitative.

Couple this with the rapid breakdown of the Korea relationship as Plako wonders how to subsidize a HRE defence against India, and the outright cold war with Slaze and it looks like India's diplomatic fortunes are at their lowest ebb. They've got more than enough raw material to work with however.. so even that shouldn't stop them. It is interesting how even here, when they should have a rock solid alliance of three teams, diplomacy is their biggest failing.

These events have kind of served as a microcosm for Indian diplomacy as a whole. As I recall it was a similar situation that first soured Korea on the alliance, when after the war with Rome India came looking for reimbursement for their help. That set the tone that it wasn't a friendship, merely a business relationship, which is now playing to its conclusion. It was also that which marred their early game diplomacy with their erstwhile enemies. Looking for tiny edges in everything has served them very well in terms of gameplay, but very poorly in terms of diplomacy. In broad strokes I would say that India has done all the right things, but by acting to secure tiny edges they've given people the impression that they can't be trusted. I'm not sure that impression is right, India has always broadly worked towards the interests of their allies(albeit in a somewhat self serving way), but it is the impression that is important.

[Ilios]

+1

[BobRoberts]

Agree, does seem a bit tight to ask for the cash for their help, particularly when they are that far ahead already?

Wonder if India may have been hoisted by their turn of phrase at points, rather than the intent.... Seem to recall Plako saying if they'd asked for help as a favour, he'd have been happy to provide it, it was tying it to their previous help for him that left him with a bad impression? Wonder if that's something that's happened much?

Although I think lots of teams have been negotiating with little edges for themselves - it's just more apparant that Speaker/Sullla are doing it as people *know* they consider every little thing? I'd cite Ottomans dogpile using other peoples troops or the MPP with Rome/HRE as prime examples?

[GrafvMonteDisco]

Like Spulla stated before they don't really consider anyone their ally but Korea and in helping Dantski they are only trying to hurt Nakor with that. They also considered razing bys and replacing it with their own city instead giving it back to Dantski.
So I'd say they don't give a shit about diplomacy because they know they are strong enough to compete against the rest by themselves.
The only one who is competitive right now s Nakor and they will deal with him shortly. The rest is too far behind to be a real thread.

[Adlain]

Athlete, please stop posting until you have read every player thread, and the lurker thread...

Also, I really don't understand why Athlete would have to read all the other threads and the 2800-post lurker thread before he posts in here.

I have to say i agree with speaker here, why should athlete have to read all the other threads before asking questions related to his and their teams relations. he is not giving out spoiler infomation (so far atleast) and no other player has been told this i.e. jowy has been posting in most threads with thought over previous relation between his team and others and there has been no problem raised by others because of this.

colour me confused as i font see what athlete did wrong to warrant the gagging order.

[Krill]

I just wanted Athlete to not start a flame war more than anything else. The game is done and dusted, there will be arguments...does he have to read all those posts? Oh hell no. But is there any point in posting in Spulllas' thread before the game is over?

[Adlain]

I just wanted Athlete to not start a flame war more than anything else. The game is done and dusted, there will be arguments...does he have to read all those posts? Oh hell no. But is there any point in posting in Spulllas' thread before the game is over?

Fair enough, although i would classify that as a PM messasge as aposed to public posting in spulllas thread of all places as the message is, in my opinion, likly to send ether speaker of sullla off on another war of words with yourself at the the epicentre.

the only problem i had was that to read all these threads will take an almighty long time and to have to read them all before comment would be quite the task:neenernee