[PB59 NO PLAYERS] - Jungle All The Way!

[Thoth]

I like the starts overall, but in starts 1-4 the PH site is better than the Sugar. Start 5 the Sugar site is better than the PH.

And start 1 has forested deer which none of the other starts do.

[Lewwyn]

I like the starts overall, but in starts 1-4 the PH site is better than the Sugar.  Start 5 the Sugar site is better than the PH.

And  start 1 has forested deer which none of the other starts do.

I think I'm going to swap the ivory and the sheep in start 1 so that the sugar start can do 6f like the other 4. 

I am not sure that the PH is strictly better in the 1-4 starts. I think some of it is going to come down to what you want to do, what your starting techs are, and what your plan is in the early game. 

The forested deer was a concern, but I put it 2nd ring of the PF site to try and make it less powerful. Start 1 is the only PH without a 6f tile(w/o LH that is), instead it gets the forested deer. I thought the trade off was interesting.

[Krill]

No.

No no no no no.

You do not under any circumstances give triple food tech starts, not if players need Fishing, Agri/Hunting and AH as the start techs have massive implications.

It's a replay of the bullshit that was the PB37 start and it is not on.

[Lewwyn]

No.

No no no no no.

You do not under any circumstances give triple food tech starts, not if players need Fishing, Agri/Hunting and AH as the start techs have massive implications.

It's a replay of the bullshit that was the PB37 start and it is not on.

I mean I literally have had triple food tech starts in the last 3 games I've played and dedlurked. I think the meta has changed Krill. As long as everyone has a similar playing field its about the choices people make in terms of where they settle and what they choose to research first.



After sleeping on it, I'm going to change out the forested deer in start 1 because yes that's too much incentive for the PH. I think I'll go with a wheat.

Also thoth you might be right about the PH being strictly better since the WB open with a PH and a FPH + the Corn might just be easier and stronger out the gate. I might have to switch wheat and corn in some starts to give a more clear incentive to the sugar in terms of food over production. Specifically Start 2 has the fish next to the PH so a WB start there with the corn is way way better. If the corn and the wheat are switched there it becomes a more difficult decision.

So my plans:

Start 1:
swap ivory and sheep
swap deer to wheat

Start 2:
swap wheat and corn

Start 3:
change corn to wheat
change cow to corn
swap deer and PFH


Start 4:
swap the cow with a corn

Start 5:
change the rivers around sugar
change desert incense to plains incense

[Lewwyn]

Okay I made some updates to the starts. Here are what they look like now. I'm planning to post them to the threads in an hour so if you have any last minute thoughts please let me know. I'm fairly confident in these starts though and mostly locked in.

Start 1

Start 2 (EDIT: fixed the wheat tile from grasslands to plains)

Start 3

Start 4

Start 5

[Krill]

Why do starts 1, 2 and 4 need AH, but 3 and 5 only need Hunting?

[Lewwyn]

Why do starts 1, 2 and 4 need AH, but 3 and 5 only need Hunting?

Because I wanted to change the variety of the starts, and the next 2 closest food sources for the 3 and 5 (near their copper) are AH food sources which forces them to tech AH like the others. Starts 1, 2, 4 have farmable/campable/fishable food sources by their closest copper. I concede that the AH req might be perceived as a burden but I am trying to keep it in mind for the rest of the map. I'm doing almost the entire map by hand.

[Old Harry]

On a huge map worker techs take a while, and some folks will end up stuck with myst/fishing, so I'd argue that having three different techs to research levels the playing field slightly in that no-one will start with all the techs they need. But I could be wrong.

Balancing the starts to account for AH/non-AH sounds really hard Lewwyn - are you sure it's a good idea? If they can choose not to settle the cap for the AH food (4 can, 1&2 can't) I guess they can kick the can down the road a bit.

[Kaiser]

Can you share a more global view so we understand who shares continents?

[Old Harry]

Can you share a more global view so we understand who shares continents?

I don't think we're at that stage yet. And the map maker possibly shouldn't know this info until after he delivers the map...