[PB69] Lurking the dreams of summer

[Krill]

All good questions but short of MS dragging his way to knights amd eating nauf and Ginger is this game actually able to end?

[Qgqqqqq]

Man I find Naufragar and MS's threads fun to read. Nothing quite like two players totally misinterpreting one another turn after turn.

[aetryn]

Man I find Naufragar and MS's threads fun to read. Nothing quite like two players totally misinterpreting one another turn after turn.

I don't quite understand how MS can think a message as subtle as "I expect you to surrender Cathy Ames because it's my part of the Ginger partition but I don't want general war with you" could ever be received in a no-diplo game, and the suspicion/implied hostility for not cooperating is coloring everything either side does. The intent of each to claim their fair share of Ginger seems to ultimately mean that they don't actually partition him because they are too busy posturing against each other. Would they be have been better off taking peace with each other and just racing for the cities? I understand that is a disadvantage to the player with shorter frontiers, but maybe just get the Ginger war over with, take what you can get, and go after some other player after?

[Amicalola]

Man I find Naufragar and MS's threads fun to read. Nothing quite like two players totally misinterpreting one another turn after turn.

I don't quite understand how MS can think a message as subtle as "I expect you to surrender Cathy Ames because it's my part of the Ginger partition but I don't want general war with you" could ever be received in a no-diplo game, and the suspicion/implied hostility for not cooperating is coloring everything either side does. The intent of each to claim their fair share of Ginger seems to ultimately mean that they don't actually partition him because they are too busy posturing against each other. Would they be have been better off taking peace with each other and just racing for the cities? I understand that is a disadvantage to the player with shorter frontiers, but maybe just get the Ginger war over with, take what you can get, and go after some other player after?

For Naufragar that's definitely best, because he would get almost all the cities and MS would get basically nothing.

[aetryn]

Man I find Naufragar and MS's threads fun to read. Nothing quite like two players totally misinterpreting one another turn after turn.

I don't quite understand how MS can think a message as subtle as "I expect you to surrender Cathy Ames because it's my part of the Ginger partition but I don't want general war with you" could ever be received in a no-diplo game, and the suspicion/implied hostility for not cooperating is coloring everything either side does. The intent of each to claim their fair share of Ginger seems to ultimately mean that they don't actually partition him because they are too busy posturing against each other. Would they be have been better off taking peace with each other and just racing for the cities? I understand that is a disadvantage to the player with shorter frontiers, but maybe just get the Ginger war over with, take what you can get, and go after some other player after?

For Naufragar that's definitely best, because he would get almost all the cities and MS would get basically nothing.

Well, a couple of city sites in the north, but not as much. yeah. But what's the other alternative? It's almost certainly not worth choosing something worse for you if it only hurts one of your neighbors and not all of them. If Nauf and MS end up in a hot war, which seems to be the direction of travel, doesn't that grind them both down and just leave Bing or whoever comes out of the other 3-way standoff to tech ahead? Does MS really get any more of Ginger's cities in that scenario?

[Amicalola]

Man I find Naufragar and MS's threads fun to read. Nothing quite like two players totally misinterpreting one another turn after turn.

I don't quite understand how MS can think a message as subtle as "I expect you to surrender Cathy Ames because it's my part of the Ginger partition but I don't want general war with you" could ever be received in a no-diplo game, and the suspicion/implied hostility for not cooperating is coloring everything either side does. The intent of each to claim their fair share of Ginger seems to ultimately mean that they don't actually partition him because they are too busy posturing against each other. Would they be have been better off taking peace with each other and just racing for the cities? I understand that is a disadvantage to the player with shorter frontiers, but maybe just get the Ginger war over with, take what you can get, and go after some other player after?

For Naufragar that's definitely best, because he would get almost all the cities and MS would get basically nothing.

Well, a couple of city sites in the north, but not as much. yeah. But what's the other alternative? It's almost certainly not worth choosing something worse for you if it only hurts one of your neighbors and not all of them. If Nauf and MS end up in a hot war, which seems to be the direction of travel, doesn't that grind them both down and just leave Bing or whoever comes out of the other 3-way standoff to tech ahead? Does MS really get any more of Ginger's cities in that scenario?

I see what you're saying, but I can see why MS doesn't want to go for that; he is just being greedy, I guess. It's also really easy to overestimate how easy communication is in these, I think the odds of them coordinating that properly without one side or the other either striking opportunistically, or misinterpreting. Particularly when one side is Naufragar, who is a very aggressive/paranoid player. To split Ginger cooperatively puts them in a prisoner's dilemma, and I would not want to be in one of those with either of these two players.

With that said, the idea of MS' that he can hold any of southern Ginger against Naufragar is also highly impractical, so I agree that I'm not really sure what the plan is.

[Amicalola]

I still don't have anything intelligent to say about the Magic war. He didn't take peace two turns ago, so he must be planning an attack in the next 8, but it's hard to say what he's after.

For reference on 'Naufragar is a very aggressive/paranoid player': there are so many reasons why MS might not be giving peace that aren't an immediate attack.

[Tarkeel]

Reading Magic's latest plan, I think it's hubris to expect to claim more than Joker and Bibracte. Iago would be a reach and hard to defend.

This feels like a classic sunk cost fallacy; He's put so much time and effort into this plan that he's no longer able to evaluate if it's worth pushing.

[Mjmd]

I love how Gav went "2v1 wasn't enough I'm going to ensure a 3v1 and that SD doesn't have a chance to sit back". Like he is injuring someone who has done him no harm and provided him horse.

Mind you Pin seems to be open to keeping peace with Gav even though its his best expansion option?

[Tarkeel]

I think Gav is doing the right thing. If he sits still, he'll be dead at the next big tech leap and this way he's atleast doing something. It looks like he might even make significant gains against Superdeath; I had ulterior motives for moving Nauf's scout over to take a look: