[Spoilers]Krill PB80 - The Long Road out of Eden

[Krill]

I know the Morale promotion trick, but I think this is the first time I've ever been able to use it. Goodbye, Forbidden Palace.







Obviously I razed it. Commodore will likely rebuild in a better location but still nice to raze it whilst he is a bit of a tech battle with Thoth.

[Krill]

Thoth and Commodore are three turns from Radio.

The decision to make Radio require Democracy and Communism has done a good job here: I can get Flight quickly enough for fighters to defend (could even have it now if I wanted), but I am, maybe, another 8 turns from being able to research Radio.

I should be able to grab Refrigeration for naval movement and Sids Sushi, before returning for Flight and trying to crash build/whip fighters everywhere. Commodore has taken State Property, so I think I'm in the clear now.

I am not competitive in tech, not even close. The failure to industrialize has cost me in production, but I have a stronger navy than Commodore. Commodore can now choose how to close out this game as he has almost the same city count as Thoth and I, but Thoth has a higher GNP, which means that Thoth might be able to squeeze out a spaceship. I'm not going to win, but Thoth has a chance here, so I'm still interested in playing on. The late game turns are not a chore even though every one is a war turn: the vision from airships makes it much less stressful, that and the simple acceptance I ain't gonna win.

It feels like the game settings and mod are viable.

[Krill]

So I landed Sids Sushi, and I'm starting to spread it. The next real gamble is if I can get a low odds GM/Gspy for my third and last GA. That would get me into Environmentalism and Emancipation, which would help manage my tech deficit.

Commodore is pushing through PIndi. I've had to fall back because I simply lack units that can fight paratroopers, but I should be able to build them in a few turns so I might be able to fight at a parity. I just smacked his DD stack though, I got 5 victories, he got 4, which was good going giving the 10% defence bonus but my units are higher health and I've blocked his retreat so I might be able to wipe out the survivors. I also have reinforcements inbound so I should be able to push him back.

All this is a distraction from Thoths run to nukes. That's what's buying me a little bit of time, but really I expect to die in nuclear fire.

[Krill]

Commodore has a problem.

Thoth is definitely pushing well past him in tech, and it's getting to a point where it looks clear: Thoth can win by SS.

It looks like Commodore is cash rushing something, but I can't tell what it is, unless he is cash rushing factories in new cities before he goes all out on war. That could be...brutal. Thoth is building guided missiles though, and I can't see where they are going. I have suspicions about commandos but that doesn't make much sense to me.

I just missed my third GP for a GA, got a redundant scientist which means I can't get a GA for 10 turns at best. I'm definitely out of it on tech now. I'm probably going to whip factories and power plants everywhere whilst spreading SS. Most of the cities will regrow by the time I could get a GA.

[Krill]

Thoth completes Apollo, and is one turn from Fission.

Commodore revolts to Police state and some other civics.

I wonder if Commodore is going to go after the easy route to Domination (Pindicator, me), or if he is going to proactively stop Thoth?

[Krill]

Somethings happening. I don't know what, but somethings going on. I think Thoth might have just reached Advance flight: jet fighters will annihilate any offence reliant on bombers, so it might be that Commodore is going full send.

Commodore has just finished a round of battleships on his west coast. I've completed Industrialization, so I will whip out a small number to bolster my DD. It's always been the plan, but I just hit the 30% great person so I get my third golden age. I can get Democracy next turn, and the turn after throw the GA and revolt into Emancipation and Environmentalism.

I have nothing else that really needs to be built now. A few cities could do with one or two health buildings at some point (Environmentalism fixes all of that), and I do need airports in relevant cities for the 5xp fighters. Most of the harbours are down (mainly for health but the XP is good). Both corps are fully spread (except the GT city with Sid's Sushi, because it already has 140 food in the box it can't use. OTOH, I might spread it there to see just how large I can get the city, you know, for the lols, plus drafting is about to go out the window if I take Vassalage).

I can finally build decent land units: marines and tanks. No more having to make do with drafted infantry. I need to work out tech path, but I'm fairly sure I know the route I have to take.

I'm not back in the game. My power has lagged these last few turns, but now I have almost fully industrialized, Mining Inc is established, I have decent units to build, I do still have a play I can make. I can still make sure that a world war happens, and that's the roll of the dice that has to happen to have any shot of winning. Unlike most games, this civ still has a functioning economy and the way to win is to make the other economies worse (there is room for solid growth though now I have both corps and final civics will be in play). I'm not a threat to Commodore winning, but Thoth is, so Commodore will ignore me and focus on Thoth. I'm gonna use Thoth as a meatshield, and try to get to a position where I can steal the SS victory. It's unlikely, but that's the play.

I'm not going to rescind the concession though. If either Thoth or Commodore want to stop playing and concede, then the game should be called.

[Krill]

I just got city visibility on Commodore.

He is running 100% culture slider.

Builder showdown!

[Krill]

Or a haiku version:

Comm city vision
Culture out of the wazoo
A builder showdown

Actually, that sounds like a great theme for an update thread.

[Krill]

Trying to find some time to write this post, because Commodore is becoming more and more insistent in his diplomacy ie I'm really pissing him off by not accepting peace

To me this is a no brainer: I'm playing to win, even now. I'm not going to, but the decisions are taken to achieve the best chance of victory.

The only way I can win this is if both Thoth and Commodore experience delays to their paths to victory: Commodore especially is hard to derail with a culture victory. I need them to fight each other, I don't have the capability to affect them to the level required. I need Thoth to drop a few nukes on Commodore.

Thoth will only fight Commodore if Thoth thinks Commodore will win a culture victory before he can get to space, and vice versa. If both players think they can win the builder race, then nothing I do really matters. Right now I think Commodore is the slower of the two players. I think Commodore thinks that as well. Thoth is building forts on desert tiles, I think to possibly locate jet fighters to to play defensive, so I think that Thoth believes he can win the peace.

So right now, I need Commodore to attack Thoth, and I need to dissuade him from any other route to victory ie via domination. That means building a necessary deterrent: air power, as I have no other functional counter to bombers ripping straight through me. I only need to make him think that domination takes longer than Thoth needs to win (don't get me wrong, I need tanks and marines as well, plus artillery, I'm lower on power than I should be).

How do I get Commodore to attack Thoth? Ultimately I don't have to: if Commodore thinks that Thoth needs slowing down, he needs to do it himself. If Commodore thinks that he's lost from this position, well, that's on him. I have not given peace: that doesn't matter, if Commodore throws away a perceived chance of victory because I will not given him 10 clear turns when I have no offensive forces that could take a city and he has airship visibility then that's a decision he can get judged on. This is a topic I put squarely in his lap and take no responsibility for whatsoever: I'm unlikely to be able to beat both Thoth and Commodore to a victory condition even if they nuked each other into oblivion, so any action which harms Thoth (including the decision to stop trading which loses me a bunch of corps resources) helps Commodore more than anyone, which is de facto kind making. And that is why I don't annoy Thoth: I need those corps resource as they are the only thing giving me an hope of getting the necessary tech to win via SS, so I don't give peace.

tl;dr I don't care which of Thoth or Commodore wins, so I'm choosing whatever path positions me best to survive and win a late game war. That path is to continue the status quo.

[Krill]

I tried to work out the tech path Thoth is taking. He is researching Plastics, so it looks like he is going Plastics>Composites>Laser/Computers>Fiber Optics>Fusion>Ecology. Computers is the cheaper tech, but Laser gives SDI and he probably has Manhattan one turn from completion in case he needs it.

Commodore is now showing 25 turns to CV in his third city. Given all thrusters and only one engine, Thoth needs to get the five techs above, plus build the engine, in 13 turns.

But Plastics is showing as a three turn tech, so it looks like Thoth can't match that speed. Except Thoth has Fission and Rocketry, plus Satellites for full map vision, and Commodore doesn't have any of that.

I don't know what's happening, but this might be the first truly legit future era war in RB history.

--

On the domestic front, I should have Superconductors next turn, and then laboratories in most cities within three turns (already done a bit of micro for max overflow from all current builds, which consisted of swapping specialists on and off coast. The changes to environmentalism and emancipation really do make late game micro much less time consuming). I'll save gold, but I think that I will basically get to the end of my GA, end of T224 with only Liberalism and Communism researched, plus 9000 gold in the bank, enough for 9, maybe 10 turns worth of max research. I don't know what that is, but I think that should be enough to get me Rocketry, Radio and Satellites (not Artillery) by T234. I have city investigation on most of Commodores cities, so if I can get to Satellites I should have a better idea what is actually happening once I can see Pool (I don't know what that city is, never had vision on Commodores starting area). However, I need Artillery for units.

I generate two more great people on T221 and T222, so with any luck (of not hitting the 20% GS on either roll), I am one great person short of a fourth GA.

This is for context about how far behind I am in tech. I'm 20 turns from being able to field jet fighters, or if I just wanted to go old school, about 10 turns from finishing Manhattan myself with Rocketry in place. I might not have Kremlin, but I'll still be able to pop out 30 nukes of various types if I had to, so I'm still capable of really ruining someones day. I'd rather they do it to each other though.