We already know this is a problem but here is another demonstration.

We've seen it with War Trolls so far but now Doom Drakes :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tLdmPJjfF0

It seems you don't even need to be able to buff them, just having Healing alone is enough. So the problem is bigger than I thought, it's not just something limited to life megabuffing rush.
As usual the gold is from draconian bowmen but that isn't really the problem, you can get early gold in a lot of different ways using lots of different treasure strategies, or even play Dwarves on rich and get lucky with your gold ores.
The problem is clearly the ability to outright get to maximal tier in no turns for a mere few thousand gold.
To be honest I think if the AI was intentinonally doing this, buying up to Armorer's Guild immediately, even low difficulty levels would be near unwinnable - it's so unbalanced. And unlike the human, the AI can simply gather the gold by not wasting it on other stuff, they have higher income.

Previous related threads : 
http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showt...p?tid=8983
http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showt...p?tid=8991

The original game contained this problem somewhat by having the gold cost depend on production already done, so going from 0 to 100% completion costed a lot more...but that system was flawed and easy to trick, as well as unfun - by the time those turns pass, you might forget you wanted to buy the building. Also buying the building is not a game balance issue for 99% of the buildings - getting any nonmilitary building 10-20 turns earlier "only" means that many more turns of resource production, and the cost of buying will always be way higher than the benefit, as well as gold being a more scarce and in demand resource than production. So I still think that was a bad system and removing it was the right thing - but we definitely need something else to fix it.

So, looking back on the old threads, we decided against :
Requiring fame for the buildings (very artificial, hard to explain?)
Raise production cost of the buildings (would be bad if you want to produce in multiple cities, bad for AI)
Make "Buy cost" higher for military buildings (change production trick works)

Then ignored the problem as we had no good ideas at that time (and still don't, unfortunately)

(also, unrelated but sad fact - raising the range penalties only really achieved Chaneller to be retort good for rush.)

Note : Obviously adamantium matters, but casting Holy Armor or Endurance can have the same effect or more so it isn't the actual problem. The problem is having a high tier unit that has good hp, defense and often additional abilities that help its survival (Regeneration and Fear we've seen so far, for Nightmares it would be flight and ranged, Nightblades are invisible, etc) way earlier than it's actually possible to kill one supported by 2-4 uses of healing, even for a full 9 stack of low tier units.

Hello all together,

I wanted to get into mapmaking and searched the forum for anything related to mapmaking. What I didn't find is any kind of tutorial about mapmaking or general discussion about it. So I hope that this thread can develop into this kind of tutorial/discussion. Mind you this should about the process of mapmaking and not about the tools to make them. I will provide a link list to any tools I come across so that they are easier to find for anybody, but in this thread here I am interested about the skill of mapmaking. Things like:

• How do you start making the map?
  
• What are your steps to the final map (Player starts first or the shape of the land first etc.)?
  
• How do you make sure that the map is balanced?
  
• What are common mistakes you should avoid in mapmaking?
  
• When would you say is a map lush in RB fashion?
  

• The worldbuilder file. What's in it and what should I look for? Are there any specific RtR things that differ from the standard BtS?
  
• How to convert a BtS worldbuilder file into a RtR file?
  
• Rivers. How to make them beautiful and keep my sanity in doing so?
  
• Changes to the settings of the map after initial creation? How to? What should I avoid?
  

Traditional first post space filler:

A spoiler thread, finally.

My picks were:

1. Tebryn of Sheaim
2. Shekinah of Sidar
3. Dain of Amurites
4. Arendal of Ljos 
5. Tasunke of Hippus  

Cairo got my top pick (but he is Averax) but that's fine. Playing with Sidar sounds like a cool trip too. I'm still debating a little whether I'd like to play magic game like before or go with recon game. Sidar is OK with magic route, y'know ARC etc. But I think I really want to focus on Recon line and play with their ability to cast Severed Soul spell with all my Recon units (once I get KotE), giving me a flying 2 move unit that can teleport my unit to the tile where the summon is standing. This gives me ability to move very quickly basically giving me two free moves anywhere. Besides it looks like at least two of my opponents are going for mages so my Assassins will be handy for that matter. Of course I will also play with adepts but no mages this time as high priority. If I want a religion FoL is high on the list.

Adepts can be used as shades if they ever get 17 xp (level 5, this used to be level 6) if nothing else. With ARC that's a lot faster, also never really played with CRE in MP (I think?) so time to test that as well. At least early city spot deciding will be a lot easier. So Sidar's specialty is that I can turn any level 5 unit to shade being able to settle them as Great Persons with some extra gold/beaker/hammer/culture depending on the GP I choose. Similarly with city specialists. That is a decent boost too. This is going to be the cornerstone of my economy, hopefully those barbs come in plenty early to get one shade ASAP. Usually later you don't want to turn your best units into Shades but earlier that doesn't feel so bad.

World spell, Into the Mist, can be useful. Turns all my units invisible for as long as I don't attack or cast a spell. Can be very powerful, especially if used before mages hit the stage. Or even then it's not still useless, but mages can hit my invisible units with spells like Maelstorm. Not even going to describe all the possible ways to abuse this spell but there are plenty. Always good to have a spell under my sleeve that can be scary to my opponents. Against Bob this won't be that useful... I think floating eyes (meta I, he starts with that mana) will reveal invisible units (I know it does show all other's so most likely shows invisibility from WS too?). If a lurker has better knowledge, please let me know. Otherwise, need to test that myself, I guess.

So the start (as you all know):



And when I got this I noticed one of the reasons why Sidar sucks. They start with Pacifism! -20% unit production, no thanks. So I had to revolt away right now. So why not just scout for first turn then?



I revealed some tiles, but not much. Then I settled on T2 back to where I started. All others went with SIP (obvious).

Just played T22, this is from T18 showing the land I know before Spider ate my Scout.



I met Cairo close to that Sugar but he hasn't found (?) my borders yet. I think his scout died like mine so maybe that's why.

Tech path: Agri -> Calendar -> Crafting -> Mining for start.

2nd city goes to that PH 1S of Ivory. Way to use CRE! I don't think anyone else will settle there. Commerce early is a very high priority, even higher that better food tiles (for example 2 x Sheep). The 2nd city will be settled T39 or T40 so not the earliest 2nd city. I could speed that with Exploration but I'll skip the tech for a bit. I get TRs with rivers anyway, and the first TRs with cap are the most important giving +2c immediately while the 3rd city only gives +1c. And I have Rice, Cotton and Reagents. Two riverside 4c. This city is going to be very strong in hammers with 9 hills. If I didn't have CRE I'd probably settle where I have "not x?". Can't ignore those commerce tiles even if they're not the best ones.

Hello, 

My dear lurkers if there is any ...

I am big fan of magic and mythology, my favorite movies are the one from tolkien books and my favotite games all time is Heroes of might and magic 3.

I plan to update this thread , becasue i have many questions and eitblopedia doesnt answer to them. 

I played a test game with elohim and I discovered i have no clue how the magic spell are working. For example i builded bambur and i expected like him to be able to learn (use, i dont know wich term is corect)  all the level one spells for which i have mana at the palace ,but not he know just his enchanted blade. 

We are at turn 20 , here is a picture

   


Yes  ,I builded  a monument, the special one for elohim which llet to me to hire a priest and gave me a priest point .I didnt wanted to build wariours with a lot of penalty and i know thre is some nice event for the monument, I realy hope i hit some nice event.And even more there are slow points  of GP so with working  a priest few time  I can get a GP around turn 70 to bulb pristhood.

Played a Chaos/Sorcery Barbarian game but it was so disappointing I dropped it in 1405.
Even with Resist Magic berserkers are still weak to poison and ranged attacks, and still aren't completely immune to curses. While they are powerful enough to win battles, they take a lot of damage and in more serious battles, a lot of them dies.
Meanwhile, you lose your ability to produce settlers (barbarian cities don't produce resources), so maps that would otherwise be very favorable for late game strategies, turn against you, having no use for the empty territory whatsoever.
I recorded the "game" but I have doubts it's even worth uploading. I started on a huge empty continent full of good terrain, and all 3 enemies were lawful or peaceful. Could have won by doing nothing but building settlers and maintaining peace but barbarians aren't even capable of that.This alone was so annoying that I don't even want to continue. It's not that other strategies can't have bad luck but that type of start is the BEST luck for this strategy if played by anyone else but barbarians. If picking barbarians eliminates your ability to take advantage of what you're the best at, that's simply a bad choice and a sign of it weakening your core strategy far too much.  Simply put, Berserkers can't make up for having no economy and magic through the things they conquer (conquest building destruction rate, time it takes to settle after razing, worse unrest table, etc) which makes them fail at what they have been designed for, to offer this tradeoff. Life might be an exception but that's not only because Life is so good with berserkers (it is) but because Life doesn't need what you're sacrificing (stronger economy) in the first place. Life wins on commons and Prayer, uses minimal mana crystals on combat compared to other realms, can create a good economy out of nowhere, and most importantly, Life midgame is heroes and heroes don't really use much of your economy either. None of the other realms can afford this - they rely on combat spells and summons which need you to have mostly nonbarbarian cities, but there is no guarantee you will have one you can spread in the early game where it's most important nor that nearby AI will fill those lands with such cities.

If all this wasn't bad enough you have to spend 1 pick to play the race - Alchemy is kinda required. Might as well pick Myrran instead for the same cost, which unlocks far superior races and better advantages. That by itself makes Barbarians a horrible design.

I think we might need some drastic changes for this race not that I have any good ideas.

Don't have much to say or show yet, but this depressing situation:


The scout moved from the Tundra hill 1NW, and will be the second scout I've lost so far.

I wonder which one will kill it?

Your Pitboss games running now on Zulan's server, http://civ.zulan.net/.
This server already hosting the games of an other forum, civforum.de, and kindly shares its resources with you.

The main administration tasks, will be done by me, Ramkhamhaeng.
Please report issues, feature requests, etc in this thread.

== RB40 ==
Game finished
Game tracker: http://civ.zulan.net/pbspy/game/69/#players (or #log)
New mod: RtR_4.0.8.3 (replaces RtR Mod 2.0.8.3.

== RB41 ==
Game finished
Game tracker: http://civ.zulan.net/pbspy/game/70/#players
New mod: RtR_4.0.8.5 (replaces RtR Mod 2.0.8.5.)

== RB42 ==
New server url: pb.zulan.net:2042
Game tracker: http://civ.zulan.net/pbspy/game/71/#players
New mod: RtR_4.0.9.2 (replaces RtR Mod 2.0.9.2.)

== RB43 ==
New server url: pb.zulan.net:2043
Game tracker: http://civ.zulan.net/pbspy/game/76/#players
Mod: RtR_4.0.8.5


Note that the new mod names contain an underscore, but not space!


== Development ==
The source code of the new mods can be found on Github. I've added an extra branch for each RtR-Mod.
The fourth branch, RtR_4.0.0, is based on a newer DLL of Civ4RealmsBeyondBalanceMod and is not save compatible with the other versions. This branch can be used as boilerplate for further developments of your mods.


== Donations  ==
If you want support our Civ4 Pitboss services you can donate money for the server hosting costs!
If you're EU citizen a normal bank transfer might be the easiest way. Otherwise steam gift code may be simple solution for both sides.
Zulan wrote here a comment about the donation topic.



== Update 2020 ==

10 hosted games later I think I should post some more detailed installation instructions in this thread for further games
The mod name in your Pitboss game can differ, but the installation process is almost the same.

• Download the linked PB Mod_v9.zip and the BTS_Wrapper-zip from the PBSpy page.
  The mod is almost Civ4:BTS, but improves the Pitboss capabilities. The list of changes can be found here.
  The wrapper was created to speed up the login process. Nowadays Civ4 starts fast, but the default save file transfer is really slow.
  
• Unzip the mod into
  [Civ 4 installation directory]\Beyond the Sword\Mods\ or
  [...]\Steam\SteamApps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization IV Beyond the Sword\Beyond the Sword\Mods
  If you use the Steam version, go into the game properties in Steam and select the 'original_release_unsupported' version. Otherwise no DirectIP mode will be available.
  
• Check the folder structure of the mod because it differs between different unzip programs. It should be
  Mods\PB Mod_v9\Assets, not Mods\PB_Mod_v9\PB Mod_v9\Assets.
  
• Unzip 'BTS_Wrapper_v9_with_gamespy_fix.zip' into the 'Beyond the Sword'-folder.
  
• Create a shortcut on BTS_Wrapper.exe and expand the target line to
  "[...]\Beyond the Sword\BTS_Wrapper.exe" mod= "PB Mod_v9"
  Don't forget the space after 'mod='!
  
• Start the game over the new shortcut. At the first start the Windows firewall and maybe the anti virus protection needs to be handled.
  If the Wrapper do not work you could change the shortcut to
  […]\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword2015.exe" mod="PB Mod_v9" (now without space).
  
• Go ingame to Multiplayer>DirectIP and join the test game pb.zulan.net:2057
  If it does not crash, the setup on your PC is done.
  
• Finally, a port forwarding rule in your router is needed to allow other users connections to you, if you're logged in on the PB server. (Civ4 does not sends its traffic over the server, but directly to all connected players.)
  For PB games, you need a rule to route UDP-traffic on ports 2056-20XX to your PC.
  Each player gets an own port, so use e.g. XX=66 for up to 10 other players.
  The default port 2056 can be changed in the CivilizationIV.ini.
  Note that in some cases (IPv6-only connection) other users still cannot connect if you are in the game. This is ATM an unresolved problem.
  
• Now, your setup is complete
  

Players (in the turn order):

Aurorarcher
Dave V
Bobchillingworth
Mr. Cairo
mackoti

Rules/map info:

• Mirrorland, Standard, thaw, Quick, Immortal
  
• No Acheron, Orthus, unique features, huts or lairs
  
• Tech trading off, no vassals, AI diplo
  
• Blessing of Amathaon
  
• Living world
  
• Normal barbs
  
• Strategic Resources: Critical resources close
  
• Water Style: Waterways
  
• No preplaced improvements
  

Following on from the original thread, I have a question for players, for this beautiful brand new year where we are about to lose some days swapping PB servers and have nothing else to do: What civs would you never pick, would you hate to roll in a random game, and why? And what do you think would improve them, so that you wanted to pick them?

And the counter point: which civs are too good, and need toning down?

Quote:Zulu: Ikhanda: -10% city maintenance (down from -20%)

Work boat: requires no tech (working water tiles still requires Fishing, stolen from Seven and ToW) (instituted in 2.0.8.5 for PB41)


New proposed changes:

Fishing Civs rebalance:

America - new UB Armoury - +1XP to Gunpowder, +1XP to Mounted, +1XP to Armour, +2XP to Melee
Byzantine - Fine
Carthage - Fine
England - Stock Exchange changed to 160 hammers, +65% gold, -15% city maintenance
Greece - Fine
Japan - Change to Fishing/Agri, Pagoda to +45% science (no hammer bonus)
Native America - No change needed
Netherlands - Affected by caravel/privateer change, fine.
Portugal - Affected by caravel/privateer change, fine.
Rome - Fine
Spain - Citadel obsolete at Scientific Method
Vikings - Fine

Mongolia: Keshik now immune to first strikes (brought into line with HA and HA replacements, due to PRO change below).


Naval changes:

Caravel, strength 4, -30% against galleys and triremes, 1 capacity (can transport any units), remove ability to enter cultural borders [Other stats unchanged, 60 hammers, requires Optics, 3 moves]

Carrack: Increase to strength 4, -30% against galleys and triremes, 4 moves, 2 capacity. remove ability to enter cultural borders

EIM: Lower to 3 capacity (unsure if change matters, it probably isn't needed), remove ability to enter culture without OB

Privateer: Requires Optics and Paper (other stats unchanged, cost 80, strength 6, 4 moves, hidden nationality, requires iron or copper)

Ship of the Line: iCollateraldamage = 75, iCollateraldamagelimit = 70 (ie 30% hp max damage from collateral), iCollateralDamageLimit = 5

Ironclad: Decrease to 1 movement point. Starts with Navigation 1 and Flanking 1 promotions, 1 free strike strength 12, no defensive bonus, requires iron, coal, steel and Steampower, costs 120.

Traits

PRO: Remove free CD1, give free Drill 3 (+2 free strike chances) to Archery and Gunpowder Units
FIN: +35% production of Library
IND: Can build 2 copies of all national wonders (I figured out how to do it without SDK modding, slightly messy but completely functional), +100% production of forges. NB wonder production modifer REMOVED!