I get home later than usual this Saturday but I hear people still want to gvg.... this is double rewards weekend, and on top of that saturday will be the Zaishen Quest, which should bring out a whole lot of teams and faction.

For build, I am working on a more balanced hexway mockup, but thumpers could work well if we need to use heroes most of the time. Or we can do another round of SF eles if people prefer that. The top teams are switching away from split builds, I'm just hoping people around our level will follow suit so we can mosh them into a pulp instead of getting outplayed like usual.

Hey folks. I haven't had my Civ IV fix in a while and am finally submitting to the jonesin'. I would like to know, since I have missed both Beyond the Sword and Warlords, if Beyond the Sword includes Warlords or do I need to purchase them separately?

Thanks.

Before playing my first deity single player game, I made sure to read some reports from epic 4 and epic 10 mostly to know how to deal with the barbs and the AIs, though there was not raging barbarians this time as it was in epic 4. So after reading useful information and playing a test game with the same map conditions but random civs to avail the turntime of wonders, religions and other stuff, I started to figure out how could I win this game.

The main results of the test game were:

- T08 Buddhism falls.
- T16 Appear the first barb.
- T38 Stonehenge is completed.
- T40 Barbs invade.
- T44 The Great Wall is built.
- T56 Oracle is built.
- T65 The first AI to research Alphabet.
- T80 All AIs land are filled.
- T84 Pyramids is built.
- T88 Second civ with Alphabet.

I wrote the turns of civs getting alphabet cause I was considering an alphabet brokering as the majority leaders/civilizations prefer to research other techs, we are on a Pangaea map and T88 for the 2nd civ with it was somewhat late, so I could get it around T80 after researching the vital techs Bronze working and Animal Husbandry. So the first short goal of plan #1 was to get alphabet soon, while expanding. With early writing, chop a library in the 2nd city and run 2 scientists (helping the research of alphabet) while the capital builds settlers and workers. Eventually, the 1st or 2nd scientist would bulb philosophy and another brokering era would begin. Talking about victory conditions it would probably be culture, though diplomacy was an option and the leader choice encouraged space. Domination would be a viable option as sooooo demonstrated in epic 10 but one of my major rules when playing civ is to not play a long game and to pursue the fastest victory.
Plan #2 was way more aggressive in terms of risk and delay of the growth curve. It was based on an Apostolic Palace victory, after bulbing theology from the Great Prophet from Oracle (getting Code of Laws). T56 for Oracle could be achieved with some efforts, although it would delay the 2nd city and some important techs. Grabbing one of the 2 earliest religions was encouraged too.

After all the planning, I started the game to discover we don’t start with mysticism neither mining as usual for Pacal, but agriculture and the wheel (and a combat I warrior also). What was that?! Probably a “don’t try to get an early religion you fool!” or a “let’s build up granaries and cottage the land asap”. About the civ/leader choice it was a great choice as exp/fin were nice for a builder civ, trying to pursue a space or culture victory, besides of the resourceless Holkan to defend against barbs (it turned out later that it was a total waste UU as the AIs rapidly covered the fog) but I think a phiolosphical civ would be better for a increased chance of victory (maybe Elizabeth or Peter). Well, it was more challenging though.
So without mysticism, plan #2 ’s poor chance of success was totally discarded and I chose plan #1, with the beeline for alphabet after researching AH, BW, hunting, pottery and mysticism. OK, this is not a direct beeline in fact…
Moved the warrior to the hill NE of the settler in order to explore the river tiles. The settler founded Mutal in place, getting corn, cattle, dyes and lots of grasslands and grass hills, a fantastic all-around (food, hammer and commerce) city. Looking now after the game I should have put the city 1 east to get the bananas.





I chose AH first instead of hunting to get the cows sooner than the corn in order to have more production to build warriors for fog busting. In this way I could grow up the capital to size 5 while building 4 warriors after the worker and then build the 1st settler.
The C1 warrior explores NE then clockwise, despite of the revelation of a hut SW of Mutal’s border. He found Mehmed, a lion (which attacked the warrior on a hill and dead) and Mansa Musa. Esiponage points were all directed to Mehmed as it would be useful to see his research, but not Mansa’s overpowered research. He found also a nice location for a 2nd city with ivories, cows, shared corn and more grasslands to cottage. Even more, the city placement was in a hill, important do defend against barb attacks.





The 2nd city, Lakamha, was settled SW of the sign though, abdicating its coastal but getting much more grass tiles. Worker pastured the cows and went to the corn roading a hill between it and the capital. Our 2nd warrior got 5xp from the hut SW, promoting to woodsman II, so he could explore and defend more efficiently through these forests. The forest hill would be a nice fog bust point. One warrior stopped at Mutal to permit size 5 while the other warriors went to hill places to bust the fog. The Great Wall was built in T44 exactly as predicted, but Mansa Musa got Alphabet 17 turns earlier than the prediction, enabling a nice change of pottery for hunting and part of mysticism. I would need hunting after researching mysticism to get the ivory in Lakamha.

Labor civic was changed to slavery while the settler walked to the city spot. After the 1st settler, capital built a 2nd worker and then another settler for the city spot near bananas and horses. I could farm the bananas short term and cottage all these grass tiles after chopping a big number of forests to complete some wonder.





At this time Asoka and Augustus Caesar had alphabet too, when I was researching writing. So instead of getting alphabet I changed the plan to get another forgotten tech for most of the AIs: Aesthetics. With this, my game would totally lean towards a cultural victory, as after aesthetics it would be interesting to get literature and music, landing both Great Library and Sistine Chapel.
With the cultural aim, we would need at least 6 cities in order to build 2 cathedrals for each religion, so after the settler for the 3rd city, Mutal immediately begun another settler a city SW, getting horses and grasslands but no seafood. As Mansa was expanding rapidly to his west and I would need another city in the southern (getting fish and 2 ivories, I whipped the 3rd settler down to 3 pop, built a 1 turn scout while 1 turn growing to size 4 and then another settler for the fish city. I beat Mansa for 1 turn to settling this city (luckily he wanted to found it on the hills and wasted 1 turn). The hills spot was the blue circle location, but 1 tile S would be a better city with Moai.








I had some possibility to take that barb defend by 4 warriors with my shock warrior and Mansa’s axes but he managed to get it in a 1 turn attack. With 5 cities it was time to develop the economy of the short empire so workers and libraries were built in all cities. Lakamha, the 2nd city, hired 2 scientists to get an academy or maybe philosophy if I’d managed to get Code of Laws and meditation with the brokering era of aesthetics. T82 it’s research was completed and we traded it for polytheism, maths, priesthood, fishing, iron working, masonry (went free from a Mansa offer), archery and alphabet. It was a nice 8:1 rate. Mansa had Code of Laws already but he was not willing to trade it neither we had any tech to trade for, so the 1st scientist built an academy in Mutal.








Literature was set to next research, due in 9 turns (T90), Chichen Itza chopped out Statue of Zeus, completed in T91, and Lakamha failed to get Parthenon on its half (built by AC). Mutal succeeded in landing TGL by turn 100 (although Mansa was in the race also) boosting the research of music, though Mansa got it 4 turns earlier.





When I started to build Sistine in Mutal, Mansa had already finished it in T104. Shwedagon Paya was built in Lakamha though, with help from AC’s gold. These wonders were built basically for its culture points, though earlier pacifism and +3 Great Artist point didn’t hurt. Some AIs wars already begun, basically involving Romans and Vikings, but it was too far from my empire to bother me. All my nearest neighbours but Mansa were Buddhist as was I. Drama was the next research due in only 4 turns. Although Mehmed and Asoka (few turns later) were already “WFYABTA”, the Literature/Music/Drama tech brokering era had begun, with the score of 9:3 getting Monotheism, Sailing, Monarchy, Code of Laws, Calendar, HBR, Construction, Currency and Metal Casting.





F4 screen was like this at the end:





The last (6th) city was settled on the northwestern, getting copper, sea and some grassland to farm, while I failed to found Taoism for few turns. Although, Philosophy was traded for part of Civil Service, Compass, Feudalism and Machinery, opening the path to Liberalism. No one had paper already and the plan was to research it, bulb great part of Education and research Liberalism then, getting whatever free tech. It would be a big victory to be the 1st to Lib in deity, so any free tech would be profit.
In 14 turns the plan went perfect and 1 turn earlier Asoka was willing to trade Optics (and Engineering for Education) for me opening Astronomy as the free tech!!





Well, but why Astronomy in a Pangae map? The answer is a small island shore discovered by someone with optics to my west. With trade of world maps I was able to see this and the island seemed to have room for a colony, and better, there were visible seafood. But, again, what’s the matter with this? Colony, cool, but for what? I don’t know if I was wright at this time, but with the loss of Sistine, it would be much difficult to have culture in the 3 cities and I chose to research until Medicine to get Sid’s Sushi Corporation, instead of stopping research after Democracy, pushing the culture slider to 100%. As it was path to biology, it was an ok plan and should be worth trying. So we would need seafood in the long term.
Not much happened between the discover of Astronomy and the colony settlement, besides some trades for guilds and printing press, and some AI wars involving Mansa, Mehmed, Asoka and Ragnar. At this time even Mansa was WFYABTA with me.
After building 2 galleons, 4 settlers, 3 maces and some workers, all the island was filled (after razing a barb city), getting 1 fish, 2 clams, 2 whales, marble and iron. Not bad. After chopping granaries and harbors for all cities and hooking the resources, it was time to grant independence to the colony under the government of Washington.





Some nice trades were done during this time, getting gunpowder and chemistry both from Mehmed (who would be the civ with less time under WFYABTA, though he was not very friendly and advanced. If someone could explain me this WFYABTA mechanism I would be greatfull). A Great Merchant (for Sid’s Sushi) was born in Mutal after a Golden Age provided by a Great Scientist. Democracy was researched to improve all the cottages, to make Chichen Itza (the banana city with weak production) a good hammer city also and to buy important buildings such as temples and monasteries in weak production cities. Medicine was the next aim for obvious reasons and it came around T200. Before it we got a nice random event I’ve never seen.





There was no strong reason to found Sid’s Sushi in Chichen Itza, but it was the largest city in population and needed a grocer anyway (the 1st city with it actually) so it would be nice to get the multiplier. Chichen Itza looked like this after founding the corporation:





Useless techs were traded just for fun, such as divine right, military tradition, rifling and steel. (although one of these techs would turn up later to be vital for the victory). Mansa Musa completed the Apollo Program at T219 to scare me a bit, but he would need to tech and build the spaceship in about 50t or sooner to beat my 3 legendary cities. Great artist were born and giving +4000 culture, cathedrals were built and with all culture building done in the 3 cities, they were set to “culture” and the other 3 set to “wealth”. Culture victory was approaching, lasting only 10 turns, while Mali had 3 cities with +30k culture and was reaching the start of the spaceship building. Everything was fine and good when suddenly the horned guy came out to my screen on T251: “So be it.”





Oh God, at this time all cities had a garrison warrior, Chichen Itza had 3 maces returned from the colony and Ankara and Gaziantep (flipped ottoman cities) had 2 riflemen each. To get worst, Ragnar had a sizeable army of cavalries and trebuchets at my borders, near Ankara.





Well, this has brought some excitement to the somewhat boring later game. The plan was to defend the 3 (almost) legendary cities logically, and there was only one solution to create an army from nothing. Yes, you are wright, drafting! On the 1 turn of anarchy, the Viking took Gaziantep, which was light defended by 2 riflemen. But now we could draft 3 riflemen per turn: 1 from Chichen Itza (already a legendary city), 1 from Ankara itself and another one from the coastal horse city. Mutal and Lakamha were 10 turns from achieving legendary. Thanks to AI’s silliness to bombard a light defended city down instead of attacking immediately, and thanks to the stack of ~ 40 riflemen created in 12 turns (some were built and other upgraded maces), we could hold all cities and even get back Gaziantep from the Vikings to achieve a cultural victory on T263!








You can notice in the 1st picture the size and starvation of Lakamha and Ankara after all the drafting.
Wow, great victory, my first and maybe one of the few (or only) I’ll get at this difficult. Much thanks to Sullla for this enjoyable game.
I would like to invite everyone to read his writeup from Apolyton game, present in other thread. Masterful game and writeup!

I haven't had time to do a proper write up (I will) but I retired in 1180AD after losing my military city to Dreylin ... err ... Mehmed II. At least I lasted longer than Asoka did .

Hi,

normally I don't like games on Deity (feels too much dependant on luck and too unfair to me), but I actually had both the time and the itch to play CIV and no other event was open, so...hell, why not.

Here's a quick summary what happened:

I moved my settler one tile E to get the bananas in range, then teched to Bronze Working to chop and whip out some settlers. I managed to expand to 6 cities, but apart from the capital they all were...a bit underwhelming, especially when it came to food.

I got lucky in that several AI-AI wars broke out, so my neighbours were busy. I offered them several resources for free to improve relations, and tried to land some tech trades. Sometimes it worked (Education), sometimes it didn't (Metal Casting - I got very lucky by popping gems, so I had an incentive to go for MC early).

While I tried to lay low, please my neighbours with gifts and giving in to demands, and set my empire up for a desperate try at a culture win, Ragnar vassalized one AI and captured some cities of another. Although some AIs were at war, I still missed Sistine's - ah well, but at least I got 4(!) religions. Maybe that would be enough?

Around 1000AD (edit: okay, I looked it up: 780AD ), I was about to win the Liberalism race - when I suddenly realized: ON DEITY I was about to WIN THE LIBERALISM RACE!!! Er...what had happened here? That was unreal!

Thankfully, one turn before getting the tech, Ragnar reminded me what difficulty level this game was played on, and declared war on me with a monster stack I had no way of stopping. He wasn't even a direct neighbour, but had moved his stack all the way through Mansa's(?) lands...and since everyone refused to declare war on him ("nothing to gain"), or even close borders, the game was over.

I don't know if I would have had a chance of winning a cultural victory, with only 6 cities, no Sistine's and somewhat slow building cathedrals. But I do know that while the game had been some fun, overall I still don't like Deity.

-Kylearan

Okay I thought I'd report on my incomplete game. I didn't really stop for any particular reason - just kind of got bored of it. But I will share what I did. Unfortunately I don't really remember a whole lot, but I did take a few screenshots, and I will try to recreate a few things.

Obviously, I'm not very good at civ, so take this all with a pinch of salt.

I founded in place and sent my warrior to the SW. He popped that hut on Turn 6 and...



Oops. Guess T-hawk was right!!!

Tech path went AH, Mining, BW, Pottery, Myst, Hunting, Writing, 1820 BC.

I sent my first settler to the north, settling Lahkama 1W of the ivory to get the copper. As in most games, Mehmed beat me to the cows. I don't think I did a very good job of corn sharing, though I tried some.



3rd city (Chichen Itza) went 1NW of the horses to the east., which I founded in 1920 BC.

I founded a "pink dot" of Uxmal near the southern ivories, hoping to post a stake in the ground, but then Mansa gave me the screwgie.



That would end up being a real thorn in my side.

I completed Aesthetics in 825 BC, which netted me Alpha, IW, Fishing and Sailing, Masonry and Archery. I set research to Currency, while I got Poly as a gift from Asoka and Math from Caesar for Aesthetics once he was willing to trade.

In 400 BC, I got Hinduism, which was huge as Mansa, Asoka and Ragnar were all Hindus. I converted, and I think Mansa converted all my cities with missionaries.

Currency came in and I was able to sell off a bunch of old techs for gold. Also, I got Monarchy from Caesar, Calendar from Asoka and then Mansa gave me Feudalism for free! I parlayed Feud and Currency to Ragnar for CoL and MC.

I ended up stopping at 1 AD. I'm not sure if I could give a cultural victory a shot but I figured that would be my only chance. The free artist was still available at Music, but all my cities had only the 1 religion - so I'm not sure how that might have worked. Maybe a better player than me could have done it.

Part I

Well, without too much to go on I just dove on into this game:



The start is excellent with irrigated corn and riverside cows. Plenty of green tiles ensures the long term viability of the location, so I settle in place. I was briefly puzzled by the combat I warrior (we’re Expansive and Financial, right?), but then I decided Sullla was just being kind. Sadly he died in his first battle while defending against a panther. One hut was popped for some gold.

After getting the food working I headed for Bronze Working, both for Slavery and chopping power. To me Expansive is one of the best traits for Slavery since granaries are easy to get up with a chop and expansive workers are best whipped to maximize the hammer bonus.

The first settler grabs a great location:


Despite only having a single bananas as a food source this is a killer city – every single workable tile is grass and riverside! Eventually this will be a fantastic commerce generator. Horses are nice too, of course.

Next I grabbed the northern plains location that can share the corn with the capital:


Having Mansa to the south is great since he quickly wracks up the demerits with other civilizations. In fact he would fight an early cold war with Ragnar (Mansa declaring).



A wandering Chariot finds a juicy target:



The hut gave experience! This is wonderful since now the Chariot is at 8/10 and only needs two more experience to enable the Heroic Epic.

Another coastal city, this one with an ocean based fish resource:



There was a barbarian city to the south, however I was nearly too late scouting the city center tile. Expecting to see 3-4 archers I was shocked to see the city defended by warriors! Thanks again Sullla. So a perfect chance for the 8/10 Chariot, right?



And of course I lose! Ouch. That means no Heroic Epic for a long while yet. At least my remaining warriors were able to finish the job and capture the city.

Mansa Musa had spread Hinduism to all my cities and Ragnar was already Hindu. I was also hoping that Mehmed would soon join the Hindu ranks to make diplomacy more tractable. So I agreed to this request:



For more happiness the price was a little steeper:

Here it is. One failed game at Deity and one do over at Immortal .

Darrell

Adventure Thirty-Nine is now open for reporting. Please post your reports in the Tournament Discussion subforum.

I didn't want to be the first to jump the gun, but since Timmy posted, here you go:

http://www.dos486.com/civ4/adv39/