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  CIv 6 wonder balance discussion
Posted by: Dp101 - October 23rd, 2016, 13:45 - Forum: Civilization General Discussion - Replies (21)

So, in the interest of compiling a decent resource to use while making decisions as to which wonders to go to, I thought I would start a discussion about the various wonders and which are good. I haven't played that far yet, so I will only offer opinions on the ones I have used / am building / tried to build.

Pyramids - Seems really good to me, the free builder is a nice way to catch up in the growth curve after lagging behind to build a wonder, and the one additional build on each builder might be small compared to the bonuses you can get from civics, but because the pyramids are a fire and forget thing rather than taking up a slot, they are much more valuable. The only real issue with them is finding a city that has the land to build them and also the production capacity, since desert is kind of bad.


Petra - I have no experience using this wonder, as it was sniped by Rome in the only game I have gone for it in. However, just by raw stats it seems amazing, +2 food / production, +1 gold is even better than the Civ V version, which was agreed upon to be busted (although everything is more powerful in VI so it might balance out). Build this, spam mines on hills, and get an ubercity that doesn't need any resources or districts to be powerful. This might be the most powerful wonder because desert becomes the most powerful base tile type, even better than grassland, so you can go anywhere with these amazing tiles. And speaking of amazing tiles...


Chichen Itza tries to be the rainforest equivalent of Petra. The only problem with this idea is that while rainforests don't need much improvement, starting as a 2/1 tile, the wonder adding 2 to culture and one to production is far weaker than Petra, because you can improve Petra desert and you can't improve rainforests. Really, the wonder needs a bigger boost if it wants people to not remove rainforests to use it.

Most of the rest of the wonders seem to be mediocre at best, with many of them having too stringent requirements preventing them from being useful (Ruhr, Potala palace, Hagia Sophia) or just not being good enough (Alhambra, Great Library, Great Zimbabwe). I would love if someone could provide a defence of some of these wonders, because I don't want to feel like they are all terrible, but I just don't see the appeal yet. Anyone else want to give their opinions on the wonders? I'm kind of bad at going in depth, so more nuanced opinions would be welcome.

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  Firaxis Slowly Losing Ability to Make Small 2D Images
Posted by: SevenSpirits - October 23rd, 2016, 11:14 - Forum: Civilization General Discussion - Replies (23)

A few examples from Civ 4/5/6:

Improvement Yield Bonuses
Civ 4: Distinct icons
Civ 5: Single generic icon for all kinds of effects
Civ 6: No icon - you have to open the tech tree and mouse over the empty space of the tech



Civics/Policies
Civ 4: Distinct icons
Civ 5: Distinct icons, but monochrome
Civ 6: One of four generic icons



Happiness/Amenities and Health/Housing
Civ 4: Icons!
Civ 5: Icon
Civ 6: Let's fill up the screen by writing out the word "Amenities" a dozen times



Oh hey, Civ 6 actually does have an icon for amenities despite not using it on that screen. It's cleverly designed to have the same color and shape as the Housing icon.

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  [Spoilers] As music goes
Posted by: AdrienIer - October 23rd, 2016, 05:39 - Forum: PBEM74-D - Replies (88)

Let's try to, at least, win the loser's game

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  Civ 6 Adventure 1: Tossing the Salad(in)
Posted by: Lord Parkin - October 23rd, 2016, 02:32 - Forum: Arabia Reports (Civ6 Adventure 1) - Replies (1)

Welcome!

I plan to update every 100 turns or so, or when a major event occurs - whatever comes sooner.  We'll see how it goes.  smile

Admittedly I did play out a couple of starts with different civs on different maps in the 12 hours prior to Brick releasing the saves, so this won't technically be my first game - but it will be the first played to completion, and the first with Arabia.

Early plan: Spam units for the first 20-30 turns as insurance against the inevitable barb menace (seems Civ6 default setting is "raging" based on my limited experience in the first 12 hours of play). Then switch to other builds. I want to test how feasible ICS is in Civ6, but I also want to live up to my wonder-whore reputation. So we'll probably be trying some sort of a hybrid city/wonder spam strategy. Wish me luck!

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  Molachs Egyptians
Posted by: Molach - October 22nd, 2016, 18:18 - Forum: Egypt Reports (Civ6 Adventure 1) - Replies (13)

I've found the right folder to add save games to! So I'm off.
Plan for this game: Build a mighty army to stand the test of time.
Supported by low-mid upgraded cities. From my 80-turn test game I think I'll get tile improvements over districts and just build that way. Granary, watermill, monument in cities then leave it be.

I plan to make a few cities of my own, and when new settlers get real expensive, I'll take them from AIs.

Let's see. How to post a screenshot from steam library...

My starting position. And everyone else's[Image: 1032EBD9F020C9FD6CAED0805C0F123725EA9029]

I'm not experienced enough to know if this is good long term. But we get food from FPs, and decent production with two stones. Production might VERY WELL be KING in this game. No districts or good stuff if you can't build. So yeah. This is probably a decent start.

(Spot reserved for mocking myself when I get more experience)

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  RBC6A1 - Dp101 Rule Britannias the world - COMPLETE
Posted by: Dp101 - October 22nd, 2016, 16:38 - Forum: England Reports (Civ6 Adventure 1) - Replies (16)

Hi, this is my report. My general game plan was to not die to barbs, get redcoats, rule britannia my way across the world, and have at least one city on every continent. 




Settled in place, moving away from 3 resources to get closer to the fish & sheep seemed like a poor choice, and there didn't seem to be an alternative location. Build order was warrior - scout - builder for maximum protection and exploration before economic development. First research AH, plan was then to go mining / sailing / whatever I got a Eureka for. Initially the warrior I started with went south into the rainforest, but that was probably the wrong move. Explored a hut on turn 6, gave me a Eureka for bronze working, which would be needed to clear the jungle. Found the desert and my first barb t7, but it was a scout so I couldn't chase it. Found rome to the south t9, along with a spearmen encampment. Weirdly enough I didn't get the rome contact immediately. Warrior finished t11, on to scout next with the warrior moving east. 




Rome was clearing the encampment, and I joined in. Got to enact policies t15, took urban planning and survey. Craftsmanship next. t16 rome cleared the encampment, I had stopped attacking because apparently I couldn't kill the spear in one hit, guess I should have taken the other military policy. That turn I got another inspiration for state workforce. Also that turn the city grew to size 3 and finished the scout, worked the sheep/gems/stone to complete the worker in 7 turns. Food gain cut in half by being close to the housing cap, absolutely brutal. Rome finally contacted me turn 18 despite me first seeing his unit 9 turns ago. Maybe its because his scout met my scout? t20 the awfulness of my terrain finally hits me: 




Massive jungle, a desert cut in half by multiple mountains. Where do I even put a city? I could get one in the jungle just south of the city, but past that all I could really get would be fishing villages on the costal desert. 
T22, and this is just insane. 




I have a tiny peninsula, half of it desert, and Rome is sitting at the base of it. Guess I need to use those naval units. t23 I get sailing, and the second spear encampment found by my east warrior attacks with both a spear and horse, both take huge damage. Research bronze in 10 turns to clear the jungle. Builder also finishes, settler next. Another horse spawns, first one suicides. t25 barb in encampment SUICIDES, SO I CLEAR IT. WHAT. Also due to my own poor planning I'm going to tick past the 50% mark on craftsmanship just before my builder uses his third charge, so some of the eureka is wasted.
Thank you Rome:




They have obviously been killing all the barbs for me. You can see my only way out is on the left of the mountains. T27 a scout closes in to my capital without a unit on defence, but I realise I can rushbuy with all the gold the gems gave me, so I buy a slinger. I was close to being able to afford something actually useful, but I don't know if scouts can pillage or not and I'm not taking chances. At this point I also realise how many barbarians Rome has been holding off, a slinger has now turned up and their gems are pillaged. Rome yells at me for not expanding. T30 they grab the forge pantheon. Rome builds a road for me using a trader, so thats nice. Ok, look at this. 




Look at how fertile this land is. Floodplains, multiple farming resources. Why can't I have land like this? Meet Zanzibar t32, they want a great writer which is not happening. Settler completes t33, I send them south to the river. Bronze also finishes, and apparently my scout finds a new continent. I wish there was an easier way to see the borders between them. Capital makes a builder, probably will make 2. T35 warrior pops a south hut for a scout and I found the city: 




You can see Rome's road from here. New city starts making a monument for culture. Meet America on turn 37, they are pretty far away. New city works the wheat because its a 4 food tile because of the floodplains. Southern warrior is completely surrounded by barbs. T40 I get mil trad, switch to disciplined to deal with the barbs. Builder completes, and holy crap clearing the rainforest on the gems has a great yield. Of course, then I realise the rainforest was actually producing a huge amount of food, so I regret my decision. Also meet Kongo that turn, send him a delegation. Tech is going at an insane rate, research writing turn 43 and go on to archery. T47 finish both my civic and tech, research Wheel and civic Early Empire. T50 I buy a settler, planning on sending them to the eastern half of the peninsular. Wheel on t53, onto irrigation next. Third city, stupid placement because I was chasing the freshwater bonus. Rome is annoyed.
 



Astrology comes in t59, on to Masonary. State workforce on 61, took the wonder boosting econ policy and went for mysticism. T63 masonary, went for celestial nav for the UB. All the AIs are fighting the only CS around.
Found out why you do one move at a time.




Mysticism t67, grabbed political philo which I should have done earlier. Rome killed the citystate, they now have two cities. Kongo the only AI to expand so far. Buy builder in new crap city. Cel nav in 69, tech pace continues to be insane, go back for horseback riding because no other Eureka. T72 Rome enjoys the fact that I am completely beating him. Horseback riding in 74, go for ironworking since I don't want to tech anything that I could get a Eureka for after half the time it will take to research. T75 Rome founds a city in the southeast, cutting me off but giving me more land than I expected. I didn't try and settle past them because I thought they would get annoyed and attacked, but I probably could have. Political philosophy turn 77, divided on autocracy vs classical republic given that my second city is experiencing a lack of amenities. I go for Autocracy in the end, I want to build some wonders soon. Take the double envoys and reduced maintenance civics, research games and rec. In the north on t80 my UB finishes in my capital, and I go for stonehenge, due in 13 turns with all the bonuses. Setup 3 food / 3 production route to London, since the one to the new city is only 1/1. Ironworking t82 and go on to currency. Rome declares on Kongo in 83.




No interesting units involved, just warriors and chariots. Get second envoy in 83 and send it to the only city state I have found (since my scout died), getting 2 culture/turn in the capital, 1/6th of my total culture production. The envoy boosting civic I'm using does not apply retroactively it seems. Looks like America wants to fight as well. 




Both civic and tech finish t86, go on to mathematics and drama. Realised that I forgot to mention something, I build a scientific and religious district in my second and first cities, but realised that they barely do anything without making buildings in them afterwards. Lesson learned. Also realised how trash autocracy is, when it said +1 to all yields I thought it meant yields on the tiles like a golden age, not a base +1 to everything. Start on hanging gardens in Sheffield T87, due in 12 turns. Turn 91 I get stonehenge:




The very same turn Kongo gets angry at me for not being religious. Also get drama/poetry, on to Theology.  Discover I can't found a religion because I need a pantheon first. Will have one soon, but I will change civic research to make use of the Eureka for having a religion, so I research recorded history instead. Math comes in turn 92, Apprenticeship next. Next turn America declares on Kongo, look at all the units.




T94 Kongo wants my gems for a tiny amount of money and OB, I say no. Rosevelt turns up the same turn and will give much more, I accept.




Pantheon t95, I take religious idols for +1 faith on mines. Immediately grab religion, take Zen meditation for +1 amenities for all cities with 2 districts and scripture to spread it faster (probably should have picked something else, but had no idea if it would be easy or hard to spread.) Notice that the floodplains wheat at second city makes 6 food with water wheel and an improvement, feels good.
T96 I almost lose a warrior and Rome loses a worker to barbs. All this can't take a city.




Turn 98 I finish the hanging gardens




Also Rome likes me having religion but Kongo is annoyed I won't share. T100 overview:




I'm about to buy a settler for 4th city. Game is fun so far, and the barbs have felt fair. I also like how if you try you can get up to civ 4 yields. AI is still bad at war. I will end the first part of the report here, I would appreciate feedback in terms of what I can cut down to reduce the length of this. Also please tell me if the pictures are too big.

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  Civ 6 Adventure 1 - Egypt (complete)
Posted by: Mr. Cairo - October 22nd, 2016, 16:25 - Forum: Egypt Reports (Civ6 Adventure 1) - Replies (9)

Disclaimer 1: I played about 50 turns of Civ 6 Thursday evening, so I have *some* time with the game before I started this

Disclaimer 2: I'm playing this game on a different pc than usual that has an ultra-wide screen, so my screenshots may not be the easiest to see.

Now that that's done, let's dive in, this report will cover about an hour of playing (NHL Jets vs Oilers Alumni Game is not something to be missed - Gretzky, Messier, Hawerchuk, Selanne and more on the ice at the same time? Not going to miss that.)

Starting Screenshot:

On a river, which I think is automatic for Egypt in Civ 6, that Sugar Flood Plains is five food, definitely worth losing a turn moving the settler. I also turned on yield icons after a couple of turns, which I don't do in Civ 4, but the delay between hovering over a tile and the info coming up is too long.


City founded, working the sugar (of course), afaik culture and science is largely dependent on population, so growing as fast as possible seems to be the optimal strategy early on. Started on a scout, exploring the map seems to be the key to getting a lot of the Eureka bonuses for techs and civics. Unfortunately, the map is far from empty:

A nearby city-state's warrior ended up sniping the kill and the camp from me frown

I got my pantheon from utilizing God-King, chose the one that gives floodplains and marshes and one other terrain type one production. That made my floodplain Sphinxs give 3 food, 1 hammer, 1 culture, and 1 faith, which seemed pretty good.

Some time later:

That's a lot of warriors, Rome, the barbs aren't THAT bad are they? Oh...

Yup, it was an invasion, somewhere around 10 warriors, they spent a lot of time maneuvering around, until they started to attack the city, effectively rotating injured warriors out, but not pillaging much, most of the tile pillaged tiles improvements seen here were done by a couple of barbs: I severely underbuilt military. Cities not having the ability to attack makes them a lot weaker, and my slinger doesn't do as much damage as I had expected from experience with ranged units in Civ 5. I might be about to lose, very early into the game, although I did manage to get that settler that was about to finish out, dodging barb scouts (still not sure if they'll take undefended civilian units, but better safe than sorry), and settling to the west, halfway between my cap and Washington's cap, who has been very friendly so far.
As I had worried, I simply lacked the units to defend, and the Roman warriors were enough to take my cap frown

Good thing the AI is messed up, cause as soon as I lost my cap, Trajan made me an offer, giving me a lump sum of gold and some gpt in exchange for peace. I then asked for him to return my cap as well, and he was ok with that, for some reason....  smoke 

This was the situation at the end of my first session: 

My cap lost 1 pop from the settler, and one when it was captured (I'm assuming), a bunch of improvements were pillaged and some destroyed, and I'm getting a decent amount of gold from Trajan, and all those Roman warrios are doing a good job of dealing with all the barbs. I'm going to build up some more military, then scouts to do more exploring.

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  Civ 6 - Adventure 1 - The good, the bad and the pretty (Rome)
Posted by: AdrienIer - October 22nd, 2016, 16:18 - Forum: Rome Reports (Civ6 Adventure 1) - Replies (1)

I've played 250t but the writeup will come later. I also have about 40 screenshots so far, so this may take a while.

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  Civ VI - Adventure 1 - China
Posted by: kjara - October 22nd, 2016, 01:49 - Forum: China Reports (Civ6 Adventure 1) - Replies (5)

[Image: Civ6Screen0001.jpg]

At least we started near tea. 

China has a nice mix of early, mid and all game boosts

Early: Extra charge on workers and ability to rush Ancient and Classic age wonders with workers (15% per charge)

Mid: Medieval era Unique Unit

All around: 60% eureka's

???: unique improvement (great wall)



Since we started near enough desert, a pyrmaids rush seemed like an obvious thing to attempt:
[Image: Civ6Screen0002.jpg]

Seemed like a great thing to go for.  We have stone in our initial city ring (meaning we can easily get the eureka for Masonry), and the free worker that we get from the pyramids almost pays for itself (since a 5 charger worker gives 5*15 = 75% of a wonder) meaning the extra worker charge is almost free (and will of course be useful for rushing out other early wonders).

Turn 1: found in place and start a scout.
Turn 2: we move our warrior nw and ...

[Image: Civ6Screen0003.jpg]

That seems a bit early.....:
[Image: Civ6Screen0004.jpg]

Turns out we started on a continent border (but oddly enough, because our settle didn't actually reveal any new tiles, we didn't get credit on turn 1).

Jumping forward a bit we are almost ready to start on the pyramids (after building two workers, one for improvements, one for rushing):
[Image: Civ6Screen0019.jpg]

Of course, shortly after we start them, all the barbs show up (ended up having to rush out two extra warriors just to handle them).
[Image: Civ6Screen0024.jpg]
[Image: Civ6Screen0025.jpg]
With a bit of help from the citystate on the right we eventually push them back.


A few turns later, we finished grabbing a pantheon.  Looking back, I'm pretty sure this was a mistake (I handn't yet realized that you could rush a wonder while working on other things yet).  Fairly certain that with china you generally want to be building other things while you build early wonders (at least after you have the pyramids):

[Image: Civ6Screen0031.jpg]

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  Civ 6 - Adventure 1 - Kongo - Always War
Posted by: Singaboy - October 22nd, 2016, 00:17 - Forum: Kongo Reports (Civ6 Adventure 1) - Replies (15)

Here we go. Always war in Civ 6, let's see how this pans out.

I am planning to declare war immediately upon meeting other civilizations. This will extend to city states too. Everything needs to be conquered. If I am not mistaken, the victory condition for domination is the capture of all opponents capitals. Fine, that shall be the goal then.

Studying the UU of Kongo, I note happily, that swordsmen are replaced by them and they do require NO iron. Even better.

I have play tested a little and have a few things in mind to survive this:
- early focus on military to withstand onslaught of barbarians
- tech towards archery and iron
- not neglecting economic aspects to be able to support all the military units

I did enjoy some of the tactical aspects of warfare in Civ5, let's hope this remains. Wish me luck

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