Pre-game, Hotkeys, Join order, Shopping, Gold
and TP scrolls. Basic tactics.
Psychology, Communication, About items, When lvling up, Potions,
Spell components, Shrines.
The Butcher and King Leoric
vs Leo - Charis
Hiddens & Swarmed
of skel archers
Lazarus and Diablo
Uses for Town Portal, TPRes, TPKill - Kill the
Butcher safely, TPKill2 - Hit and run
Be a good golem/shield
Hall of the Walking Dead
Exp points & Charis Factor
items for specific tasks
The fine art of dying
Variations on team makeup
Advantages of various makeup
Experience Hog Strategy
Warrior Hog, Rogue
Hog, Mage Hog
(Greyed Text = NA)
Gumby and Kshira
Charisycho and KoPsycho
Roede and Taoni
Saga of Roede and
End of the Universe
Tale of Iron_Tao
Crown -Lock In by
Plague, Hariel and Shade
Treatise - Cyrene
Warrior - Attika
Guide - Cyrene
Collection - Others
Cap - Attika
guide to IM melee vs. Leo -
IM Melee vs Leo
(Warr and Ro)
There's been a fair
amount of questions and incorrect answers on what it takes to kill Leoric
in Ironman. As a party it's frequently not bad. Slvl 1 or 2 Holy Bolt
will take up a fraction of a staff or about 2 blue potions. Lvl 2-3 firebolt
would kill a stationary Leo in 2-3 half blues if he's stationary.
But he's not staionary - if he's beating up your warrior and stealing
his life, add another blue and red. Still, not bad. Since a party and
solo mage can take him easily, and a patient rogue can take him with a
bow (will take a while), let's focus
Previous reports suggest
things like AC 31 with Dex 50 is ok with 2-3 drinks, various other target
AC's and an extreme simplication "AC 31 and you'll be ok". Here's
what the math says considering blocking, stunning, to hit, dmg, dex, AC
A blunt is of course required, and assumed below...
1) TOP Factor
- is this original game or a continuation?
The Warrior +30 blocking bonus applies to his FIRST game only, so if a
continuation or Warr lagged out, it's like having 30 less dex.
2) CLVL, 10 being great and 8 weak.
3) WPN is next, with Hammer > MStar > Mace > Club
4) TOHIT or DMG bonus of any ring or wpn is next
5) DEX is next factor, at this time not crucial, but add +20 more,
wowza - likewise is ignoring dex. 35 or less is milktoast
6) AC. Plays the least role of all, even in IM extremes!
BASE case which is very typical is clvl 9, Morning Star, and dex of 55.
(could be max, but not everone does). This means 35 str.
For this case, # pots expected on average will be 6-8. Varying ONE thing
at a time, let's look at effect of each variable:
vs do all church: +5 pots
Clvl:: 7, 8, 10, 11: +12, +4, -2, -4 potions used
Wpn:: hammer, mstar+2, mace, spiker, club, falc: -1, -2, +2, +2, +4, +57
Dex:: , 60, 50, 45, 40 : -1, 0, +1, +1, +3, +8 (note 30->35 str
is +1 dmg)
AC high:: 70, 50, 45, 40, 35, 32: -2, -1, -1, -1, 0, 0
AC low:: 28, 25, 20, 10, 0: 0, 0, 0, +1, +2 (Why? Leo's toHit rocks)
ToHit:: Bronze+5, Iron+10, Steel+15, Silv+20: -1, -2, -3, -4
DmgXtra:: Quality+1, +2, +3, Maiming+4: -1, -2, -3, -4
Items:: Jaguar+15, Eagle+30, Skill+10, Acc+15, Precis+20: -1, -2, -1,
+2 magic, rest to DEX, using a Mace, Clvl 9
This gives DEX 68, STR 20, AC 32, HP 38. If you can, hold off on magic...
clvl 9, 70 dex: she's toast, about 20 potions would be consumed
clvl 10, 75 dex: from 4 pots to a belt - more prone to pRNG
clvl 11, 80 dex: likely none to 2 pots used
*clvl 12, 85 dex: AUTOBLOCK - no dmg unless shield destroyed*
clvl 11, 60 dex, pushing some STR and magic: dozen pots or more
clvl 10, 70 dex, just 'wasting a scant 5 pts' - will go thru a belt or
* Rogue: pumping dex,
goes from 0% victory to 100% from clvl 9->12
12/84 is the magic number: 100% block - 2 per lvl below 12, 1/dex below
When block chance >= 85% the tide starts to turn, full red belt = victory
(n.b! Night Clan have same mlvl as Leo, but swing much faster and no regen.
magic # is 15/98 in 2nd game for autoblock, still 12/84 if 1st game
Easy to remember
* Do not save/restart/lagout Warrior til Leo dead
* Each +1 dmg is -1 potion used
* Each +5 TH is -1 pot used
* 45-60 dex, pushing STR instead, works
* Very low dex or very high dex dominates
* CLVL is key, ditch him if found early, ideally clvl 10+
* AC plays NO ROLE vs Leo - (can even wear junk gear giving AC 23+)
* Rogue: 12/84 is the magic number for Leo. AC, dmg, all else but dex
As far as Leo concerned... KFG not silly for wanting hammer and giving
up SLIGHT dex to get it 50 vs 55 vs 60 dex less important than Charis
Despite earlier tips to contrary AC is irrelevant
Not stopping after dlvl 2 clear is crucial
Rogue CAN melee Leo, but only at clvl 11-12
Cy is totally right in his post below- push dex TOTALLY, max +2 to Magic
when Heal book in hand
Team game with RO host - she's too young to shield Leo, BUT...If you press
through and do CATS in that first game, she can autoblock Night Clan at
clvl 12 (else not til clvl 15)
Math rocks (still, feedback/comments appreciated if experience differs!)
PPS - Here's
the background which led to this post I gleaned these tips from previous
posts on the DSG
regarding solo Warrior's vs Leo: // = comments from Charis
clvl 8, AC 25, dex 57, Mace - died to Leo // seems accurate
Ksh reports: Anyway, ac 31 with dex at 50 is okay, but probably
means 2 or 3 drinks. Dex at 55 and ac 30 is one pot at most. Dex 60 and
28 or better and you probably don't drink at all.
// problems- doesn't mention clvl or wpn type
Ksh added: With 60 dex, ac 27 is enough, though 30 is better and
32 is just plain nasty.
With 55 dex and ac 30, be prepared to drink a small pot or two (or use
With 50 dex, make sure your tombstone has been carved, even if ac is 32,
though a firewall or two may swing the tide your way.
// IF these correspond to clvl 10,9,8 and a morning star, not far off
// except AC, which rises with depth and clvl, is wrongly given as key
factor. A star is just fine, though an enhanced star (like quality with
+2 damage) or a hammer is better. // very true
Nys reports: clvl 10, AC 30+, dex max, Morning Star - 6-7 drinks
// slightly high, but fair
1) Leo does 100% life steal. You **cannot** take a H/O on a character
with low AC approach to beat him. Chances are good you died and Leo and
as many or more hp than when you started!
2) Leo is not firebolt immune for goodness sake!
Ksh and I tried briefly a dual game, him Warr and me mage, and we found
JUNK through lvl 4. We went to face Leo, and Ksh was 99% certain we were
toast. Rather than H/O i let a continuous stream of firebolts fly.
One red and four-five blues later, Leo was dead and Ksh was surprised.
Funny thing is, later I 'did the math' and basically, Leo drops in about
3 globes of mana for firebolts (lvl 2 or 3, not the friar-like fb6) -
if he's stationary. If he's beating on a warrior HEALING HIMSELF, it takes
4-5 globes, but still, he dies.
Do try FBolt vs Leo... you might just be surprised.